IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode · 1 month ago

The Three Key Components of the IoT Ecosystem w/ Eric Conn


IoT is an ecosystem play right now. It takes these three components working together in a well-designed system to avoid failure at all points: the software in the cloud, connectivity to get the data from the edge to the cloud, and the hardware that’s detecting the environment.

The latter is where the power of asset tracking comes in.

In this episode, Nick interviews Eric Conn , CEO and Co-founder at Leverege , about why asset tracking is an integral part of the IoT ecosystem today and in the future.

Join us as we discuss:

- Asset tracking basics

- Service tracking, one of the largest growing segments in asset tracking

- 3 ways that real time asset tracking boosts business

- Security for both hardware and software

- Cellular connectivity for networks

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to IoT Leaders on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform. 

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for IoT Leaders in your favorite podcast player.

You are listening to Iot leaders, apodcast from SI that shares real io t stories from the field about digitaltransformation swings the misses lessons learned and innovationstrategies that work in the CH episode. You'll hear our conversations with topdigitization leaders on how iouth is changing the world for the better. Letiot leaders be your guide to Iot digital transformation and innovation.Let's get into the show, welcomes to the latest episode of theIO t leaders podcast with me, your host nickel, the CEO of Si and I'm delightedto introduce Eric Com on the podcaster as my guest and Eric is the CEO andfound a very interesting company in the OTI space in the US called Levrier.Welcome to the araricus this podcast thanks neck, it's great to be here. Ilove your background. You know, but regular keen viewers of this podcastbreak this wrong work on audio, but if you are a viewer er, it's the firsttime I magically used a zoom background, and I chose in a sad moment because theyou may or may not be were with the US. Do do not allow British visitors totravel and we just canceled our trip to the US as a result and so having thegolden game. Bridge of the virtual background is the closest I'm going toget to go into the US this year. So this is. This is not just a podcast andit's kind of it's the holiday, I'm not having Eric. So we got to make this a good run. Yeso we'regoing to talk about assitant. Quite a lot of probably have talked about quitea few things here, because so you know ve been weting together for a littlewhile we know each on very variance in company, but before we get into that,maybe just a little bit of background for the views listeners about yourself,I mean I know, electic Yo Linton profile is to singer Sunride, musicianand holder of to seven Patens, which don't normal go together, and now hewas so with an IT company. So maybe we just put out on a blast war tell usabout leverage and what they comes all about year. Great is the leverage wejust celebrated our seventh anniversary and so we're on the date andapplication side, the software side of Iot, specifically in what a class ofapplications they call low power, wide area applications, so those aretypically low, cost battery powered devices at the edge with some verybasic at processing, but ultimately go through gateways or direct if it's acellular via l, tm or Mbi ot to the cloud where a software cloud nativesoftware company. So we get that data at the edge in the cloud and then weprocess it and try to provide business, insights or optimizations for typicallyenterprises. Some of our customers also are enterprises, but they also sell theconsumer. So we have either a B to B business moder a B to B to be or betobac type of business model. Were a white label platform been doing thisfor seven years and really are excited about kind of where things are we'regoing. We were really excited at the beginning of two thousand and twenty,and then the pandemic at were like wow. We better. We made our delay things fora year and see what happens. Fortunately, we actually survived anddid quite well during in the pandemic, which was nice and then coming out ofthe pandemic, were seeing just increased demand for it digitaltransformation across all industries. So so we're really looking forward tothe back half of two thousand and twenty one into two thousand and twentytwo and really seeing some nice growth in the in the general category of acidtracking, so people can get interested driving. Let me ask you about that,because that is interesting. A lot of people want to know, you know. Is therelike it to the end of the tunnel? I mean we, the side o the same thing. Imean the whole industry. We first...

...quarter, I would say the first twomonths of two thousand and twenty were great, and then we started for us overhere in New York and you're in the US you're in Arizona. Right now I know,but but not based on the east coast, but the in the first two months wegrade and then he started hearing. Maybe my love World Congress. Would bea council and then stubbing bank, but then you know that was about what Shfifteen sixteen months ago and now we're hearing that things are pickingup and certainly some projects accelerated during Ovid. But we hearabout the US, a lot of restrictions have been released. Not People wastrombine around, and so would you say that to give hope to the listeners.Would you say that you really do see the green shoots, the famous greenshoots returning yeah? I definitely see that we see it just looking in the paceof inbound interest. Also outbound sort of welcoming call co before you wouldcall people or try to set up a meeting and they wouldn't return your calls,because everyone real right about now, everyone's very interested in thistopic, io t, is kind of had a resurgence. You know it like a lot ofbuzz worthy things. You know goes through the you know the absent tidesof the hype cycle and I feel like we're on the climbing out of the you know.The hype is over. The reality of it is starting to set in and there's justmore demanding. Curiosity for it, because you know you had a pandemicwhere you had any human labor was at risk. You know from a health standpointand you also had CEOS like you and me working remotely from homes, kind offeeling out of touch and out of control with their business. A lot of US hadtypical office environments. We could walk around. You could kind of get databy walking around about what's happening with the business. Well, whenyou're sitting at home everything's coming through a zoom meeting, it'sfiltered and you know the general idea of bringing the data to where you are,as opposed to you as an executive in any company going to where the data isnow sort of set in and the US has. You know they they did a horrible job atthe beginning of the pandemic. But Luckily Science, you know sort of wonthe day and you know the two vaccines that were primarily using here in thestates, as have done amazing amazing job they've had a fairly highpercentage of population now get vaccinated. The one thing that we do sosort of the side effects of the pandemic because really more on thesupply chain for us at this point, so the country here is pretty much openedup and you know people are traveling around. There's a lot less mask usagethan there used to be still some worry about the Delta Varia, but that doesn'tseem to be affecting day today most business decisions here in the states.It's really just supply chain disruptions that we're a softwarecompany, so we're not directly impacted but indirectly we're impacted becauseyou know ultimately, we all rely on micro, processors and tips yeah, and ifyou can't get them, you know because the supply chain disruptions. It slowsdown your deployments, you yeah yeah. Yes, that's so that's the biggest drag.I think, but I think that's an international thing that it the global.I can absolutely confirm its a global thing and it'll take you know we talkabout long cove, but the the business the long businesses tail effect willalmost certainly be the component of the supply chain issues and thecomponent shortages. But despite that, as you say, you know, we see the samething or a mound inquiry and sort of Lee generation is really boomed. I'dlike to think it was because the IT leaders podcast, but I I suspect it'smore to do with the the overall environment but the but people arestill I've talked about it before in this show. People are they're stillsort of a little and sure they need guidance. That's what we call it the ITleaders, they wont IANS. They want advice on which verticals or whichbusiness processes are the best ones to get the biggest quickest bang for thebuck, and you feel very strongly about...

...asset tracking W. I mean you reallybelieve you mentioned. L P, an Naraba Carman, but in particular assettracking is the thing that you've homed in on, as this is the area that canreally make a difference to companies, particularly, I guess, as we now goinginto this Groecia than hopefully we headed out yeah. As a tracking, I meanat its base. It's knowing where a thing and a thing could be a person. It couldbe a pet. You know it can be a business object of some sort. You know physicalobject and that that's fine and good, sometimes just knowing where somethingis, is great, because then you can go get it, but we're as a tracking reallyprovides a value, and you kind of get exponential returns on. It is thethings that asset tracking enables and most sun censors these days, even eventhe very inexpensive censors at the edge that are battery powered, theytypically come with some other sensors on them. Besides just a GPS or some wayto get position, so you can get temperature, you c n get humidity andget light. You can and all these signals in addition to the component oftime, not only where something is, but how long did it dwell in that place? Iknow, is it what is the conditions around where it is right now or whereit was in the past or changing conditions when you layer in all ofthat, on top of knowing where something is and then you can constantly knowwhere it is and how it's changing over time, it's very powerful for businesses,consumers. I like to say: There's, probably not a consumer on the planetand all of us are consumers that wouldn't like to know where everythingthat you own personally is at any given moment. I give the example in my houseI have. I know I have three or four hammers in my house somewhere, but Ican never find one when I want to I. So if I had a frictionless easy to use wayto just pull up an AP or something and see where my hammers were, I could justgo and get them right. That solves solves my problem, but I don't so I endup going to the local hardware store and buying head another another Amorand when it is draw you find it hat back on the trot the three hairs thatyou can exactly a and so on a personal level. We allget the frustration of just not knowing where all our things are now expandthat to a large enterprise with a million or ten million. You know,business pieces of business equipment spread all over the place. It's amonumental task and it's very inefficient to find where it is tocount it. Even how do you know what your inventory is, unless you knowwhere everything is so so acid tracking at its base case, seems relativelysimple, but once you solve it, it actually unlocks all types of businessprocess. Improvements, consumer experience, re improvements, you one ofthe or largest growing segments within. I still call it asset tracking, but isreally what I call service tracking. So you imagine you go to you know a tirestore and you want to get your tire change or you're getting you know, newoil change that experience for most consumers right now is pretty prettyold school. You kind of come in you don't know. If they're going to have aplace for you, you don't know how long it's going to take. No one knows whatwouldn't it be great if you could have like an uber like experience where itcould tell you hey, there's an open bay at this store. You can pull in it'sgoing to be thirteen minutes and you have in your APP or your cars on theleft. The coils been changed, come pick your car up, so that you can, as as aconsumer, can jump on a zoo meeting. If you want run across the street tostarbucks, get coffee or decide to wait in the facility. That's just a muchbetter consumer experience than this indeterminate kind of. Oh. I might behere thirty minutes. I might be here two hours that in the current world welive in, is just not acceptable. Experience for any consumer and acidtracking enables the unlocking that... to provide that to a consumer. Soyou can track the cars on the lift. The the car's been backed out. The car isgoing to be done, predictively in three minutes based on ten million cars thatjust like yours that have been done before you and I know how long it takesyou can tie it into inventory system so that power, when you put it that way asTita King doesn't sound very boring anymore. It sounds very powerful andthat's what we're trying to do again on the application side, so we team withlots of hardware and conductivity companies such as such as SI to enablethat, because it is, is an ecosystem play right now, where you need, youneed sort of the software in the cloud. You need conductivity to get the datafrom the edge to the cloud and you have to have hardware, that's detecting theenvironment, so without those three playing together in a very well definedsystem fashion. You any a failure at any point, brings the whole system down.So it's a difficult and challenging thing to do. But if you can do it, it'svery powerful. It's interesting that you use the UBA analogy, because I'vealways said that you know when Uber was introduced and I first started using itin the US and came back to the UK, telling people a obeat. What now do oand the way you describe it, people say: Oh, it's just a taxi right and say welland then you go. Oh look at you show. You know your small for tree in thelittle black car or in the car Chi Color. If it's a red car, it's a littleredcar and then people say: Oh, I get it and what they're actually looking atis it's not the fact that it's a car, because you can call up the taxi. It'sthe fact that you can track the car and that totally changes the experience.And then you compare that to you know I mean it's getting better, but youcompare that to the getting parcel delivered to your house or orlike when you you move out to y Ukon, trying to work out where your containeris with your furniture. I mean these huge gaps in the where there not beingscanned where you just just you, don't know where it is, but the other aspectof it is that, although, from a consumer point of view, it creates anexperience, and you will choose that experience because you can decide, I'vegot four minutes. Therefore, I've got time to do this before I go out to meetthe car, but the from a business point of view- and I think you agree withthis- is that I like to test for you agree with this one of the things aboutit is to find out where the business out coming wes the Roi from a businesspoint of view, and I think what you're saying is the inherent inefficienciesin supply chain. Most of the people don't know is that there's tens ofmillions is arguably of inefficiency in ply chain and arguably the biggest, notto crack it. It's the thing that, if you can, as you said, if you can do it,it could free up millions of dollars of acids and you he go story, though acent or food is thrown away. I mean the year story is like fiftypercent of cost reduction. If you could have real time ass, it tracking that'sactually where the Monney is right, yeah, so I I mean the it in general,but that's a track. In particular, you know the kind of foundational thingsthat it does for a eight business is operational efficiency, so that canlower you, human capital cost. It can increase safety, they can lowerpreventive preventive maintenance costs. It can provide inventor real timeinventory information. So that's just an operational, that's an internalefficiency that you can do, but then we've been talking with this overanalogy the customer experience. So if you delight a customer, I mean Amazonwas built on delighting. Customers right is so the lighting customersmeans giving them a sense of control at every sense of of their journey right,and so you know, we've all now become accustomed. Certainly the US with fromAmazon that you real time know where your packages they take pictures of itwhen they deliver it. At your doorstep. You now I'll be sitting in my office inmy house, which is about thirty feet...

...from where the door where they drop offmy packages and I'll get an email or something on my phone and it'll show mymy back porch with the package on it, and I did they didn't knock on to dornanything. So it the sort of frictit way of knowing everything that just drivesbusiness, for whatever enterprise is ha, ultimately their customers. So if you,if you do a better job of serving your customers, you're going to increaseyour top line revenue, then there's there's even additional revenue, andthis this is where it really gets interesting for traditional businesses,which are really big. Adopters of Biot is there's a data play, so you know ifyou're a traditional business and you make say windows and doors or someother hard product. Your current experience through their customer isvery distant. You sell them a product. They go away, it's a great product,maybe twenty years later they come back and buy. You have no kind ofconnectivity with your customer during that twenty year, black out period, ifyou sell them a connected product now you're in touch with them. Twenty four,seven and you're also collecting data about how your products used that right.Now you, if you're this window and door company, you have no idea if they'rehaving problems with the sash, whether the glass and you know the glazings,you know fading. You have no idea, you have no way of knowing well, if you'reconnected to it and you're connected your customer, you can do real time.Product improvements, you can. You can help all kinds of things and you'recollecting data and usage that that data is valuable, so maybe you'recollecting date on whether you know independently from the fact that you'reyou have millions of windows and doors all over the world. It's this dataelement that you unlock by when you connect anything that is a valuableasset, it's worth potentially at scale worth millions and tens of millions ofdollars. So there's a there's that and then you can also do sort of premiumtypes of experiences. So so we have a customer in the pet care business, forinstance, where you know people when they weren't at home because of coidwhen they're going to a typical office, they would drop off their pet and theywould do pet sitting. So during the day. Well, people love their pets, just liketheir children. They would love to be able to look in on their pet to makesure it's being fed it's giving its medication. It's getting its walk rightnow. It's just all well yeah. They can talk to them on a phone or somethingwhich is very inefficient for the business itself to just respond, butyou could just feed that stuff automatically. You can put a tag on thedog when the dog walks outside to go to the door. There automatically takes apicture, sends a picture up to the consumer, so they can see their dog isnow outside, or I just fed the dog that causes us text message back to theconsumer. So you can have all this automation, which just makes thecustomer feel so much happier, and you may be able to charge a little extrafor that that extra experience and most people properly would pay for it forthe pet, especially so there's all these things again. It all comes downto pass it tracking at it's at its core value, but there's all this stuff, youlay on top of it and then people get it and they go wow. That's that's reallycool that either as a business. That saves me a lot of money. Where makes mea lot of money, so it's took a bit about the tech and we talked about thebusiness case effect. I want to link the two together because, if you thinkabout the Amazon delivery guy- and you know- I'm ens a customer of Sid- andyou know we all familiar with that- is some prime but but one of the issuesthat Amazon have is is because these guys, just to keep ongetting better and better, is that they have about eighty two. Eighty threepercent. First Time delivery success, because if they're delivering to youknow condominium building or a gated community, it's not always that theycan actually get in and deliver the past, and I don't want to leave it onthe step and whatever that. So we have him desire device which will e give theprime driver permission to remotely open the door, buzz the door open withtheir cell phone to Putt the pass Elan... so like a business version of ringon the ring go and they want that to work anywhere, so this device to designmaking sure that he worked and then secondly, they want it to work anywhereat all. So of the idea of, are you big or is global conductivity, where youknow we basically are ninety. Nine percent connectivity by GPS coordinates,so they have one device for every delivery driver and it will open everygate, and so then you can start to go from eighty two percent. You know intothe S and although that's efficiency for Amazon, what it means is thecustomer satisfaction is that when I'm thinking of do I buy a pastor orsomething do I buy something of Amazon? I pay off. Somebody else. Part of mesays you know what, with that as an I know, it's going to be delivered. I cansee where it is at all time I get the photograph, I don't have to worry. IfI'm not in when they're trying to deliver the parcels that the deliverydrivers going to throw over the gate of man, we we a examples of that. You knowthe electrical gets an he throw it over the gate or drain the box box gets wet,you know they can get in. They can put it in somewhere that that strike. Soactually, what we're seeing is to this ability? It's almost like Google, isn'tit the way you describe it is that we can find any bit of informationanywhere without knowing where it is. We just have to say what we want tofind and that's in the virtual digital world. So what we're entering into is-and it's only days, but we can see a way of getting the way you can findevery physical object whereever. It is just by asking where it is the object.If that is in my view- and I ovous yours- that is even moretransformational as being able to find out all the worlds is information. Ifyou can find out where every product is funny have permission, but whereeverything that you own or or everything that your company deals with,regardless of where it is the people who embrace that will be so much moreefficient and delivers so much of a business experience, and it is a, Ithink we look back on that in ten fifteen years time and say you knowthat was actually bigger than being able to find information through abrowser, and we know how big that was yeah yeah and this you know technology.Always you know in human human history. You know we always build on the nextthing, so I think for Si, but certainly for leverage. You know we view Iot.It's still. It's still very early days, there's still a lot of fragmentation,still a lot of complexity from a technology standpoint Frit, but it isthe next big leap forward, sort of from main frame in computing to pcs to webbrowsing to mobile. We believe the next big lake up is going to be somethingrelated to Iot, which is closely tied to ai and ml, because you know all thephones. We have we're essentially walking around just creating data allday long, but there's only seven billions or so people in the world.There can be hundreds of billions or trillions of devices, rarely low costdevices and will continue to miniaturize them, make them lessexpensive. You know and they're all omitting data all the time. Even youknow they don't ever sleep right, so so that data that volume of data and thatthat value and intelligence of that that data provides is going to be eventhe next level up from what mobile devient exactly excuse me I mean it. Imean the Datis shows that at Hame the research tatosh Ip is of eighty percentof the data will be at the age because it's an exponential explosion at theage of fifties prices come down. We did a previous podcast roguet principaldevices and principles, ily principle, SES principal batteries, you're goingto get these things on Atra, ers and clothing and whatever, but it also is adownside because it's a security threat... well. We hear that you must hear itsaying well if I can connect to it, and these are cellular devices that werejoking about and that connected to the man. If I can connect it with, thensomeone can hack it and what you know can they Tummel in? Can they be amalicious code that must be when you are to pointo customers? That must be abig issue that they raise with you. What about the security as the edgefragments? It sounds great, but then the case of the chief informationsecurity officer may say hold on on a second what's or how can I control thatfrom the sender with this? Yet it is security as one of the top things on abuyer's mind and an enterprise when it go to scale when they think beyond thepilot. You know when it's in a trold kind of pilot to now it's out in thewild anyone could physically. If they can get in, could touch the devicecould take it home and play with it right. So there's your standard thingsyou can do, which is and and Encryptionso all dat is encryptedreally hard. You can't really crack it, whether it's in motion or rest, sothat's kind of the base line, but on the physical side, and that's where thethat's really the sort of the plane that you have to be more concernedabout otiate there's been a lot of work done at the microprocessor level. Withthese trusted modules, lots of manufacturers now make them where theygenerate the private keys inside a device like a module on the device thatis basically can't be tampered with. If you try to scrape it, if you try toUnplug, if you try to do anything with it, it basically Zeros out, so thosetrusted modules and the provisioning of the vice is on to a network where youhave to match keys and exchange of public private keys kind of a lot ofthings that are done in the software world. Only that has been pushed downto the devices, so everything that we work on is very, very secure, as is asure it secure, as it can be both on a hardware and a software standpoint, butunfortunately there are a lot of in driving down cost. Some other vendorswill take short cuts, whether it's a hardware vendor a sulfur vendor- andyou know security doesn't come for free, good security. It doesn't come for free.So it's trying to balance. You know how much security. Do you really need basedon the type of device or the you know they is it just read only informationjust passing information up. Is it control involved? So it's two way youcan make it. You can actuate things. Well, you know, depending on what thelevel of local control that you you're allowing access to, that shouldbasically dictate how much security you should be layering on, because, ifyou're going to allow something to open a bow remotely that better be a verysecure device, so we really focus on it. We've had our platform sort of goingthrough multiple levels with different fenders of security. You knowaccreditations and penetration testing and all that we do that on a regularbasis, but we're just on the software side. There's the hardware side has toall ether defies and, from our perspective, we're in the Hardwar, andI would have the network side water. So I funny of the previous podcast I didto this was with the head of a sort of bister for a SAMs and web services in a Mer in newEurope, and we, you know we're talking about what we did with them three orfour years ago, which is exactly what you just said, where we develop theability to put the the encryption Kus and the security citification intoArisin and then manage it from the policy, because it's a combination ofthe actual security and where it is, then the Sim becomes an Easter Sanewhich eventually becomes an ice, am inside the mortice. But we also thenneeded a policy engine that says this is my policy and so and I want that tobe automatically deployed to the edge. So one of the things that we do is thatnot only just have APN access for encryption, but actually is all datatravels over a private network. So we don't use the Internet and then whatyou can do is you could actually apply...'s an effect like your celluledevices, which might be connected to Orizon or chalets. Whoever he orcellular devices are like an extension then of your imprs network. In otherwords, it's almost because of every device as an ethene port in it cause itdoesn't. It goes directly into the back of a writer and because, if you, if youhave network level consistency between yours, Sally Lady is is regardless ofwhich M and over they're connected to and that's what we do, we but itthrough a private network and then may we connect the broken network to theenterprise is private. You Know Network, then what you can do is you can haveyour security policy that we announced this with armies and do agent ofsecurity. You can have your security policy centrally sense. What I vicesare connected to the network because it's really hard to keep track of themand actually apply to dynamic policy to for them, because you're playing it atthe transport lay your you're, applying your doing deep, packed inspection onyour satalie devices, and so that say that's what you really want to. If youare the chief security officer of the CI o, the CFO is going to sign off theproject, you want to say can't I apply the same security to do a celluleconnected it device which might be in a moving vehicle or a parcel or whatever.It is the same. Let of security as I can apply to the devises I can see inmy office or I ll go on employees, phones and if you can do that, that acombination of the device with the security tificate handling and thepolicy engine from the inside to the edge, then I think that's that's amodel. At least we believe you need in order to get enterprises to trust theIot yeah project, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. Okay, let's we be othing a little while less or surprising, you look at the clock and go wow. Idoesn't t as pet having fun we to. I was going to ask keep out lessons fromthe field, but the securities clearly one of them, one of the top things acidtracking is- is a low hanging through the probably as big Er returns forpeople that than they think, which is why you're in any other major lessonsyou've learned in your experience, a Eric on you know. We have a lot ofpeople who listen to this because of looking for advice and guides yeah yeah. Absolutely so. Whenever wetalk to a new customer, we try to be very educational and really look at itthrough a lens of what are their requirements. What you know, what dothey really need to accomplish? What is he roy and so one of the first thingswhen, when you get to this class of low power, wide area, PA and applications,you have to choose whether a private or a public network is the right choice,so private networks? What what I classify those are, where be you know?Maybe a lot of your listeners have heard of Laura, so it's been one of themore more popular low cost. You know long battery life way forms and you canstand up. A lar network relatively inexpensively have to install some gayways. It'll give you about two mile radius around a location may be alittle less depends, wot terrain and some other things, but as goodpenetration characteristics, it's not super high band with, but again, if youhave, if you're, trying to say track of vehicle as long as it's staying withinwe'll say a mile, it's fine it'll track it and you can get connectivity, but itleaves and drives away. You know you're not going to be able to cover anymoreyeah, lose it now for certain use cases if you're trying to track somethingwithin a large factory or campus, maybe that's sufficient, but for a majorityof use cases where you have mobile assets, you need something that's goingto have widespread coverage right and global connectivity in some cases, andthat's where the new versions of cellular the new lower band with theCatam one an Biot. Sometimes they get bundled into this over arching five grevolution that we're going through. But, however, you characterize it.Those are really powerful. The costs...

...are coming down the availabilitiescoming down and now, once you can drive down that cost, it just seems like amuch and and the battery consumption can be essentially the same, becauseLaura is known for being very low battery consumption, but yawny thecellular guys are really catching up quick and it just seems like a betterchoice. If you can always see where everything is no matter where it's,whether it's in a local area or not the cellular growth rate, we're starting tosee and we're starting to recommend more cellular conductivity one, you geta better quality of service, because when you install a private networkyou're now responsible for the network, you know whether it's your customer oror in the face in the great as put unlicensed spectrum, I mean, unlike notonly that it's just the day to day things where maybe their back hall. Whyfine goes down? Maybe they lose power? Okay and your gateway goes out. Well,you don't necessarily have ups as one all your gateway things or a lot ofpeople. Don't think about that, whereas the Segula community has been thinkingabout this for decades right they have ups is at the base of every every tower.They have fall over. They have they have. They have all kinds of thingsthat will essentially keep that network very reliable. I mean, I think, if youask most people, would you say your cellular connection is more reliablethan your wife. I connection like most people would answer that as yes,because you know the cellulars been around for a long time and they'vereally focused on making that network. Very, very you know adorable. So whenwe look at it more and more we're telling customers to really look at thethe cellular, the Canom ones and the bit for conductivity, because it's morereliable the battery efficiency is almost on par now with Laura and thecosts are really coming down. And why do you want to manage your own network?It's just you know you have to get all the software. You basically have to getthe course software for Laura Runner, Laura Network Server. You have to getthe gateways you have to install them. You have to do all these topologythings to make sure you're getting the right coverage map. Just let cellularjust take care of that. So so that's to us! That's that's one of the biggestgrowing things and I think analysts community has also seen that I've seena lot of sort of predictions over the next five years that cellular is goingto overtake Private Network Yeah. That's what the I N and it just makessense. You know it's just a better experience, it's more reliable and youknow one of the things that and I'm by no means an expert in seure. I know youwill know way more than I do, but you know, as you get into it, there's allall these different types of modes within cellular, so there's psm mode,Edris, moving o the Eterei become really important right and knowing about one. I just recentlylearning about sort of the nuances of some of these, but being able to. Ifyou, U have a device, say it's so on a tractor trailer this traveling acrossthe US it's going to go through different coverage areas. Sometimes attmight be strong for Ising. Others loses connectivity in other places reallyremotely. So how do you automatically switch between these networks and alsopreserve battery life? So you do not constantly trying to ending it, and youknow that just to explain a little bit to some people who are saying this isinteresting. I want o a little bit more just to explain the technical problemthat t a you're describing there. The problem is it's things like psm,parsave mud or the Diori Protocol, which is you need to manage that toreturn it on turn it off, so it doesn't. Dream are often not available on aroaming agreement as one of our lessons learned and I a sent learn and it's oneof those. I wish I'd known that two years ago, reces. It is available on adirect connection if you have a proprietory Sim, it's available, butit's not a ever on the Roman gram. In fact, we did as sure you know we havetwo thousand customers. We is. We...

...manage multiple networks, broadcustomers and we did a selling, and he was eighty two eighty three percent ofthe romy agreements that we analyzed. I know hundreds of them did not supportboth PSM and Evres, so only one out of five will spot it, but the problem isyou don't find that out to the half way through your project right, and so whathappens? Is that if you go for out of network, so you have a save Eris andSim in it or whatever or at some or an Vandosme, you go out and you hop overunto somebody else's network give you your roaming you make finds suddenlythe batteries on all the time, and it's a it's something. That's really easy tomiss in the early stage. Just because you earn good a little bench test andyou know you're not taking it for you're in a local area, you're runninga it's just fine, then you certainly someone says batteries first, the lastfive years and it lasted a year and in this a seal device you know like insidea palate and and then you had the globally a well. How can I make sureit's going to what what a it around the world and so yeah the way we do that islike we. What we do is we localizes the connection on the avenue so as to behot from network to network were localizing when we're not roaming. Warlocalizing like the start or alliance, is one a one trip around the world. Weyou're going from airline to to Ali well and even though their competitorsbut you're on the you're localizing the connection which need you get the fullfunctionality and it's one of those obscure things that people never asked.Curly on that when you talk to someone is doing it for the second time and yousay to them Eh tips and what would you do different right, Waeter to come onit? I have no idea how complicated telecom was. I had no idea, I mean toyour point. I was tying to collate the research or CLIO intelligence. Excuseme, they're the roaming experts in the industrialist community. They spun outof Juniper Research. They said told me the other day there are less than tenroaming agreements slowly available to day for Naraba Dooti less than tendoand there's eight hundred and twenty well on net were coperate in the world.So what that said is will we get there eventually, probably hope? So, butright now you, if you're, going to bet the farm on roaming on narrow and itwas more on contemn but a narrowman. The real low end, if you're going tobed the farm, then we really need to be an expert on analyzing romy agreements,and do you want to be an expert on analyzing Romia agreements and managingmobile networkers Bord? You want to be an expert on your business case forexact writing value to your customers, and so you basically need a partner whounderstands telecom networks and understand this devices, because that'sa eight percent and and there the lessons that we consistently hear youknow most of the projects that we do a people doing it the second time aroundand it's these issues that they smacked against and it's just a fragmentedproprietario system. I mean it is what it is. So I mean, I think, that Itotally agree with you. I think acid tracking is the one and to me it's likeGoogle for physical things, yea. We have no idea just how o big it's goingto be, and just like Google was once you can find information. You cancreate a new business models and new experiences and there'll be a wholeraft of companies that form based on the physical version of Google. I completely agree, and you know it'sit's huge and you know we're a firm believer that acid tracking will be thefirst massive scale. IOT application focus if you will, because because itis something that everyone would want again, if you can get the cost lowenough and the friction low enough every business, every person wants thatexperience. It's just. Can we enable it?...

You know and guys, like you and me, andour companies who know are working at very specialized portions that alltogether enable it. So you know with this this PSM and Edr for certain ofour audience members. May they sound like it's down the tin when you're, amanufacturer and you're guarantee your customer five year battery life, andit's eight months later in your batteries at ten percent love pull nowyou got to physically go out and replace all those devices. That's not agood experience for your customer or for your bottom line. So that'sprobably two hundred dollars by the way two hundred dollars on every touch edevice and your customers annoyed exactly so when you do all yourcalculations, which you you know, we we work with a lot of really talentedhardware manufactures and they do these simulations of what battery drain isthat characterize? Every nano amp that's been drawn from every module ona custom board. They may make or or commodity device, and they know exactlywhen it will run out of energy, but they didn't know about PSM or TREX, sothey're assuming is going to go in deep sleep and these certain thing. Well, ifit doesn't, it throws everything out the door and it can basically ruin. Iist kills the business case because they got orestes O, so these detailsare they're very, very important details and you know luckily, there'scompanies like yours that are really focusing on those details, becausethey're very important, if you're going to try to scale an IT application. Well,that's Sosie a good place to finish it actually, especially because you knowit. Leaders was conceived to actually help people with the to navigatethrough all the complexities and try and to sympie it, because it iscomplicated, it's too complicated, then it should be, but the you can navigatethrough and customers. You know I mentioned in amazes and it's not justbecause they got a lot of resources, but because they really at a very clearidea of the business case I mean you can tell people. When the parcel isgoing to arrive, they will feel comfortable buying itoff you and just we're discussed like the UBA. If I know I order the Uber and I know it's goingto be outside and I can track it I'll feel comfortable because I and then I Idon't have to hang around you know and we're really discovering how theseattributes these soft attributes actually drive. Customer Ority and, ofcourse we using this huge amounts of cast for the company doing it. So it'sa woin win. So it's been a great podcast Eric. I think we could havegone on to x over. So we better not do it, because people will be say enoughenough, but I really appreciate the cooperationwith you. I knew your company and I totally agree. I think this is going tobe the killer ap if you can find anything anywhere without knowing whereit it is by asking for it, providing you have the permission it. That is theone that's going to change the world. So thanks again for being my guest, Iknow you're in a very nice part of the world ride now. So it's probably prettywarm warming up out there in Scottsdale Arizona in July. My I guess, is itwhat's it going to be out here today like forty, that's inserted, yeah, lowhundred, so Fahrenheit probably close to forty sen grade. Oh, that's Brit!That's just put yeah, but but it's a dry he eats as they say right. I I DRIthat's. Rather they always say okay, and so thank you to the listners forlistening. This has been the IOT leaders podcast. If you want to get intouch, I will actually Eric. I should ask you this question: If this doeswant to get in touch with you, what's the best way, they can do that it couldjust send an email to Eric at leverage the leverages spell with all es. Soit's L, E, Veree, okay, leverage with all LESCOM and you want to get in touchwith me. You can send a message to ite leaders at SI e Sycomore, my dreem Iland Earl N E, a R L at Si com, but this...

...has been a great episode and we gotlots of insights and we, we went from high level business, the future of itand the killer at right down to you. Do Granny of the Battery LifeManagement, which is what you've got to do in this face. Hope that was usefulfor the listeners and thanks again Eric for joining me and being my guest onthe OT leaders. Podcast right thanks nick, it's always a pleasure to speakwith you at things. Thanks for tuning in to Io t leaders, apodcast brought to you by Si, our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellularconnectivity, solutions that just work helping our customers deploy,differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets, learn more at SI com. You've been listening to Iot leadersfeaturing digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision forthis podcast is to be your guide to eye of t and digital disruption, helpingyou to plot the right reet to success. We hope to day's lessons stories.Strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let's know howwe're doing by subscribing grating reviewing and recommending US thanksfor listening until next time.

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