IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode · 1 year ago

The Three Key Components of the IoT Ecosystem w/ Eric Conn


IoT is an ecosystem play right now. It takes these three components working together in a well-designed system to avoid failure at all points: the software in the cloud, connectivity to get the data from the edge to the cloud, and the hardware that’s detecting the environment.

The latter is where the power of asset tracking comes in.

In this episode, Nick interviews Eric Conn , CEO and Co-founder at Leverege , about why asset tracking is an integral part of the IoT ecosystem today and in the future.

Join us as we discuss:

- Asset tracking basics

- Service tracking, one of the largest growing segments in asset tracking

- 3 ways that real time asset tracking boosts business

- Security for both hardware and software

- Cellular connectivity for networks

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to IoT Leaders on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform. 

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You're listening to Iot leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings and this has lessons learned and innovation strategies that work. In each episode you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. Let iot leaders be your guide to Iot digital transformation and innovation. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the latest episode of the Iot leaders podcast with me, your host, Nicol, the CEO of Si, and I'm delighted to introduced Eric Com on the podcast today as my guest. And Eric is the CEO and found the very interesting company in the I its space in the US called leverage. So, Eric, welcome to the IT leaders podcast. Thanks that. It's great to be here. Love your background, you know, but regular and keen views of this podcast break this one work on audio. What if you're a viewer? It's the first time I've actually used a zoom background and I chose it in a sad moment because, you may or may not be aware, with the US does not allow British visitors to travel and we just canceled lot trip to the US as a result and so having the Golden Gate Bridge of the virtual background is the closest I'm going to it to go to the US this year. So this is this is not just a podcast, it's kind of it's the holiday I'm not having, Eric, so we need to to make this a good one. Yeah, so you we're going to talk about asset trunking quite a lot from you talk about quite a few things here because you know I've been working together in a little while. We know each other. There you variancing company. But before we get into that, maybe just a little bit of background for the views of listeners about yourself. I mean, I know I looked at linkedin profile. It's to sing a songwriter and musician and holders seven patents, which don't normally go together, and now he was CEO of an Iota Company. So maybe we just thought on the last one. Tell us about leverage and what the companies all about. Yeah, great, yes, a leverage. We just celebrated our seventh anniversary and so we're on the data and application side, the software side of Iot specifically, and what a class of applications they call low power wide area applications. So those are typically low cost battery powered devices at the edge with some very basic aed processing, but ultimately go through gateways or direct if it's a cellular via ltm or Mbiot, to the cloud, where a software cloud, native software company. So we get that data at the edge in the cloud and then we process it and try to provide a business insights or optimizations for or typically enterprises. Some of our customers also are enterprises, but they also sell the consumer. So we have either a be to be business model or a B to be to be or B tobsc type of business model or a white label platform. been doing this for us seven years and really are excited about kind of where things are we're going. We were really excited at the beginning of two thousand and twenty and then the pandemic it and they're like wow, we better we made our delay things for a year and see what happens. Fortunately, we actually survived and did quite well during the pandemic, which was nice, and then coming out of the pandemic were seen just increase demand for Iot digital transformation across all industries. So we're really looking forward to the back half of two thousand and twenty. One in the two thousand and twenty two and really seeing some nice growth in the general category of asset tracking. So people get into us a truck. Let me ask you about that because that is interesting. A lot of people want to know. You know, is that likely to the end of the tunnel? I mean we SI same thing. I mean the whole industry. We first quarter. Obviously the first two...

...months of two thousand and twenty were great and then we started for us over here in new rope, and you're in the US. You're in Amazon right now, I know, but but nobody based on the east coast would be in. The first two months were great and then he started hearing maybe my mum will congress would be canceled and then suddenly blank. But then, you know, that was about most that fifteen, sixty months ago and now we're hearing that things are picking up and certainly some projects accelerating. You're own covid but we hear about the US a little restrictions of being released, people traveling around, and so would you say that to give hope to the business, would you say that you really do see the green shoots, that famous green shoots, returning? Yeah, I definitely see that. We see it just looking in the pace of inbound interest also outbound sort of welcoming calls. You know, before you would call people or try to hit set up a meeting and they wouldn't return your calls. becauuse everyone's really cry about. Now everyone's very interested in this topic. Iot is kind of had a resurgence. You know, Iot, like a lot of buzzworthy things, you know, goes through the you know, the ebbs and tides of the hype cycle, and I feel like we're on the climbing out of the the hype is over the reality of it is starting to set in and there's just more demand and curiosity for it because, you know, you had a pandemic where you had any human labor was at risk, you know, from a health standpoint, and you also had ceos like you and me working remotely from home, kind of feeling out of touch and out of control with their business. A lot of US had typical office environments where you could walk around, you could kind of get data by walking around about what's happening with the business, while when you're sitting at home, everything's coming through a zoom meeting as it's filtered and and you know, the general idea of bringing the data to where you are as opposed to you, as an executive in any company, going to where the data is now sort of set in, and the US has, you know, they they did a horrible job at the beginning of the pandemic but luckily science, you know, sort of one the day and you know, the two vaccines that were primarily using here in the states is have done an amazing, amazing job. They've had a fairly high percentage of population now get vaccinated. The one thing that we do so sort of the side effects of the pandemic is really more on the supply chain for us at this point. So the country here is pretty much opened up and you know, people are traveling around, there's a lot less mask usage than there used to be. Still some worry about the Delta variant, but that doesn't seem to be affecting day to day most business decisions here in the states. It's really just supply chain disruptions that we're a software company, so we're not directly impacted, but indirectly we're impacted because, you know, ultimately we all rely on micro processors and hips right and if you can't get them, you know, because the supply chain disruptions. It slows down your deployments. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's the biggest drag, I think. But I think that's an international thing, not just global. I can absolutely confirmacy. Global thing and it'll take we talk about long covid but the business to long business daile effect will almost certainly be the component. The supply chain issues in the component shows just but despite that, as you say, you know we see the same thing. Are Inbound inquiry and sort of Lee generation is really boomed. I'd like to think of us because the IOT leaders podcast, but I said that, I suspect it's more to do with the overall environment. But the people are still, and I've talked about it before and this show people are there's still sort of little unsure. They need guidance. That's why we call it the I T leaders. They they won't guidance, they want advice on which verticals or which business processes are the best ones to get the biggest, quickest bang for the buck. And you feel very strongly about asset tracking.

W I mean you really believe? You mentioned Lpuan Narravan. Can in want but in particular, asset tracking is the thing that you've homed in on as this is the area that can really make a difference to companies, particularly, I guess, as we now go into this growth cycle, the hopefully we're headed. And Yeah, yeah, as a tracking I mean at its base it's knowing where a thing and it think could be a person, it could be a pet. You know, it can be a business object of some sort of physical object, and that that's fine and good. Sometimes just knowing where something is is great because then you can go get it. But we're ASCID. Tracking really provides the value and you kind of get exponential returns on it. Is the things that asset tracking enables, and most sense sensors these days, even even the very inexpensive sensors at the edge that are battery powered, they typically come with some other sensors on them besides just a GPS or some way to get position. So you can get temperature, you get humidity and get light, you can and all these signals, in addition to the component of time, not only where something is, but how long did it dwell in that place? You know, is it what is the conditions around where it is right now or where it was in the past? So changing conditions. When you layer in all of that on top of knowing where something is and then you can constantly know where it is and how it's changing over time, it's very powerful for businesses consumers. I like to say there's probably not a consumer on the planet, and and all of us are consumers, that wouldn't like to know where everything that you own personally is at any given moment. I give the example in my house I have I know I have three or four hammers in my house somewhere, but I can never find one one I want one. So if I had a frictionalists easy to use way to just pull up an APP or something and see where my hammers were, I could just go and get them right. That's solves solves my problem, but I don't. So I end up going to the local hardware store and buying at another another clammer and when you put it is drow you find it right back to grow atleep. The three honors that you can exactly so and so on a personal level we all get the frustration of just not knowing where all our things are. Now expand that to a large enterprise with a million or ten million you know, business pieces of business equipment spread all over the place. It's a monumental task and it's very inefficient to find where it is, to count it even. How do you know what your inventory is unless you know where everything is? So so acid tracking at his base case seems relatively simple, but once you solve it it actually unlocks all types of business process improvements consumer experience for improvements. You know, one of our largest growing segments within I still call it asset tracking, but is really what I call service tracking. So you imagine you go to, you know, a tire store and you want to get your tires change or you're getting, you know, new oil change. That experience for most consumers right now is pretty, pretty old school. You kind of come in, you don't know if they're going to have a place for you, you don't know how long it's going to take. No one knows what wouldn't it be great if you could have like an uber like experience where it could tell you, hey, there's an Open Bay at this store, you can pull in, it's going to be thirteen minutes and you have in your APP your your cars on the lift. The oil's been changed. Come pick your car up so that you can as as a consumer, can jump on a zoom meeting if you want, run across the street to starbucks get coffee or decide to wait in the facility. That's just a much better consumer experience than this indeterminate kind of Oh, I might be here thirty minutes, I might be here two hours. That in the current world we live in, it's just not acceptable experience for any consumer. and acid tracking enables the unlocking that data to provide that to a consumer.

So you can track the cars on the lift that the car has been backed out. The car is going to be done predictably in three minutes, based on ten million cars. That just like yours that have been done before you, and I know how long it takes. You can tie it into inventory system. So that power, when you put it that way, as at tracking, doesn't sound very boring anymore. It sounds very powerful, and that's what we're trying to do again on the application side. So we team with lots of hardware and connectivity companies such as such as SI to enable that, because Iot isn't is an ecosystem play right now, where you need you need sort of the software in the cloud, you need connectivity get the data from the edge to do the cloud and you have to have hardware that's detecting the environment. So without those three playing together in a very well defined system fashion, you know, any failure at any point brings the whole system down. So it's a difficult and challenging thing to do, but if you can do it it's very powerful. It's interesting that you use the Uberannatogy because I've always said that, you know, when Uber was introduced and I fisted of using it in the US and came back to the UK telling people are scuber and what norths that? Any way you describe it, people say own it, just a taxi right, said well, and then you go, Oh, look at the new show. You know, your your smart focus free in the little black car or in the car chain color. If it's a red car, it's a little record. And then people say, Oh, I get it, and what they're actually looking at is it's not the fact that it's a car, because you can call up a taxi, it's the fact that you can track the car and that totally changes the experience. And then you compare that to you know, I mean it's getting better, but you compare that to the getting parcel delivered to your house or or like when you move house you country, trying to work out where your container is with your furniture. I mean these huge gaps in the whether they're not being scanned, where you just just you don't know where it is. But the other aspect of it is that although from a consumer point of view, it creates an experience and you will choose that experience because you can decide. I've got four minutes, therefore, I've got time to do this before I go out to meet the car. But the from a business point of view, and I think you agree with this, is that a test for you agree with this? One of the things about Iot is to find out whether business outcome in. Where's the Roi from a business point of view, and I think what you're saying is the inherent in efficiencies in supply chain. Most people don't know is that there's tens of millions is arguably of inefficiency in supply chained and arguably the biggest not to crack. It's the thing that if you can, as you said, if you can do it, it could free millions of dollars of facets. And you had a story dollar sent to food is thrown away. I mean his story is like fifty percent of cost reduction if you could have real time asset trekking. That's actually but the money is right. Yeah. So I mean the BOT in general, but that's the track in particular. You know, the kind of foundational things that it does for a business is operational efficiency. So that can lower you human capital cost, it can increase safety, it can lower prevents some preventive maintenance cost. It can provide inventor real time inventory information. So that's just an operational that's an internal efficiency that you can do. But then we we've been talking with this uber analogy the customer experience. So if you delight a customer, I mean Amazon was built on delighting customers, right. So the lighting customers means giving them a sense of control at every sense of their journey, right. And so you know we've all now become a custom certainly the US, with from Amazon that you real time know where your package is, they take pictures of it when they deliver it at your doorstep. You know, I'll be sitting in my office in my house, which is about thirty feet from where the door...

...where they drop off my packages and I'll get an email or are something on my phone and it'll show my my back porch with the package on it and I didn't they didn knock on a door anything. So sort of frictionallest way of knowing everything. That just drives business for whatever enterprise is. Have ultimately their customers. So if you if you do a better job of serving your customers, you're going to increase your top line revenue. Then there's there's even additional revenue. And this this is where it really gets interesting. For traditional businesses, which are really big at ooptors of biote is, there's a data play. So you know, if you're a traditional business and you make, say, windows and doors or some other hard product, your current experience for their customer is very distant. You sell them a product, they go away, it's a great product. Maybe twenty years later they come back and buy it. You have no kind of connectivity with your customer during that twenty year blackout period. If you sell them a connected product, now you're in touch with them seven and you're also collecting data about how your products used. That right now you, if you're this window and door company, you have no idea if they're having problems with the sash, whether the glass and you know the glazings, you know fading, you have no idea, you have no way of knowing. Well, if you're connected to it and you're connect to your customer, you can do real time product improvements, you can you can help all kinds of things and you're collecting data on usage. That that data is valuable. So maybe you're collecting data on whether you know, independently from the fact that you're you have millions of windows and doors all over the world. It's this data element that you unlock by when you connect anything. That is a valuable asset. It's worth potentially, at scale, worth millions and tens of millions of dollars. So there's that, there's that, and then you can also do sort of fremium types of experiences. So so we have a customer in the pet care business, for instance, where you know people when they weren't at home because of Covid when they're going to a typical office, they would drop off their pet and they would do pet sitting sir during the day. Well, people love their pets just like their children. They would love to be able to look in on their pet to make sure it's being fed, it's giving its medication, it's getting its walk right now. It's just all while. Yeah, they can talk to them on the phone or something, which is very inefficient for the business itself to just respond, but you could just feed that stuff automatically. You can put a tag on the dog. When the dog walks outside to go to the door, automatically takes a picture, sends a picture up to the consumer so they can see their dog is now outside. or I just fed the dog. That causes US text message back to the consumer. So you can have all this automation which just makes the customer feel so much happier and you may be able to charge a little extra for that at that extra experience and most people probably would pay for it for the pet especially. So there's all these things. Again, it all comes down to asset tracking at it's at its core value, but there's all the stuff you layer on top of it and then people get it they go wow, that's that's really cool. That either as a business that saves me a lot of money or makes me a lot of money. So let's talk a bit about the tech and we talked about the business case, if I can, want to link the two together because if you think about the Amazon delivery guy and Amazon's a customer of a Si and you know we all familiar with Amazon prime. But but one of the issues that Amazon have is is because these guys just keep on getting better and better, is that they have about eighty two, eighty three percent first time delivery success. Because if they're delivering to, you know, come to minium building or a gated community, it's not always that they can actually get in and deliver the past and they don't want to leave it on the step and whatever. So we help design device which will look give the prime driver permission to remotely open the door, buzz the door open with their cell phone to put the parcel in. It's sort of like a business version of ring the ring and they...

...want that to work anywhere. So it's device design making sure that it works. And then, secondly, they wanted to work anywhere at all. So the idea of a ubiquitous global connectivity where, you know, we basically are in ninety nine percent connectivity by GPS coordinates. So they have one device for every delivery driver and it will open every gate. And so then you can start to go from eighty two percent, you know, into the S. and although that's you agency for Amazon, what it means is the customer satisfaction. Is that, when I'm thinking of do I buy a pass or something, do I buy something of Amazon or fire off somebody else, part of me says, you know what, with Amazon, I know it's going to be delivered, I can see where it is at all time. I get the photograph, I don't have to worry if I'm not, even when they're trying to deliver the pastor that the delivery drivers going to throw over the gate. Of maybe we will examples of that. You know who the electrical goods and its throw it over the gate or drain the box. Box gets wet, you know they can get in, they can put it in somewhere that that's dry. So actually what we're seeing is this ability. It's almost like Google, isn't it? The way you describe it is that we can find any bit of information anywhere without knowing where it is. We just have to say what we want to find, and that's in the virtual, a digital world. So what we're entering into is, and it's early days, but we can see a way of getting the way you can find every physical object, wherever it is, just by asking where is the object that is. In my view and it be see in yours, that is even more transformational as being able to find out all the world it's information. If you can find out where every product is, providing her permission, but where everything that you own or or everything that your company deals with, regardless of where it is, the people who embrace that will be so much more efficient and de devose so much of a business experienced and it is a I think we look back on that in ten, fifteen years time and say, you know, that was actually bigger than being able to find information through a browser. And we know how big that was. Yeah, yeah, and and this. You know, technology always, you know human human history is we always build on the next thing. So I think for Si, but certainly for leverage. You know, we view Iot. It's still it's still very early days. There's still a lot of fragmentation, still a lot of complexity from a technology standpoint for Iot, but it is the next big leap forward, sort of from mainframe computing to PC's to web browsing to mobile. We believe the next big lag up is going to be something related to Iot, which is closely tied to ai and ml because, you know, all the phones we have, we're essentially walking around just creating day to all day long. But there's only seven billions or so people in the world. There can be hundreds of billions or trillions of devices, verrely low cost devices and will continue to miniaturize them make them less expensive, you know, and they're all omitting data all the time, even you know, they don't ever sleep right. So so that data, that volume of data and that that value and intelligence of that that data provides is going to be even the next level up from what mobile does. Like it for it maybe extended it exactly. Excuse me, I mean it. I mean the data shows that eight the research data shows of eighty percent of the data will be at the edge because it's an exponential explosion. At the edge is fifty as prices come down. We did a previous podcast talk about printable devices and principles, printimal in sense principal batteries. You're going to get these things on snack wrappers and clothing and whatever. But it also is a downside because it's a security threat as well. We hear...

...that. You must hear it saying well, if I can connect to it, and these are cellular devices that we're talking about and that connected to the M and I, if I can connect to it, then someone can hack it. And what you know? CAN THEY TUNNEL IN? Can they be some malicious code? That must be when you're talking to customers. That must be a big issue that they raise with you about the security as the edge fragments. It sounds great, but then the sea. So the chief information security officer may say, hold on in a second. What's so? How can I control that from the center? With this it is security as one of the top things on our buyers mind and an enterprise when they go to scale, when they think beyond the pilot, you know, when it's in controlled kind of pilot, to now it's out in the wild, anyone could physically, if they can get in, could touch the device, could take it home and play with it. Right. So there's your standard things you can do, which is end end encryption. So all data is encrypt it really hard. You can't really crack it, whether it's in motion or rests. So that's kind of the baseline. But on the physical side and that's where that that's really the sort of the plane that you have to be more concerned about. Both Ivot. There's been a lot of work done at the microprocessor level with these trusted modules. Lots of manufacturers now make them where they generate the private keys inside a device like a module on the device that is basically can't be tampered with, if you try to scrape it, if you try to Unplug, if you try to do anything with it, it basically Zeros out. So those trusted modules and the provisioning of devices onto a network where you have to match keys and exchange of public private keys, kind of a lot of things that are done in the software world only that has been pushed down to the devices. So everything that we work on is very, very secure. Is a is a sure secure as it can be, both on a hardware and a software standpoint. But unfortunately there are a lot of in driving down cost some other vendors will take shortcuts, whether it's a hardware vendor or software vendor, and you know, security doesn't come for free. Good security it doesn't come for free. So it's trying to balance. You know, how much security do you really need, based on the type of device or the you know they is it just read only informations, that just passing information up. Is a control involved. So it's too a you can make it. You can actuate things well, you know, depending on what the level of local control that you're you're allowing access to, that should basically dictate how much security you should be layering on, because if you're going to allow something to open a valve remotely, that better be a very secure device. So we really focus on it. We've had our platform sort of gone through multiple levels with different vendors of security, you know, accreditations and penetration testing and all that. We do that on a regular basis. But we're just on the software side. There's the hardware side has to Allodif and from our perspective, we're in the harder and, I would add, the network sides rader. So are fund enough? The previous podcast I did to this was with the head of sort of biztare for a w Samson web services in a mayor and Europe, and we know we're talking about what we did with them three four years ago, which is exactly what you just said, where we develop the ability to put the encryption keys in the security certificate directly into our sin and then manage it from the policy, because it's a combination of the actual security and where it is to the sin becomes an east sin, which eventually becomes a nice sim inside the module. But we also then needed a policy engine that says this is my policy and so and I want that to be automatically deployed to the edge. So one of the things that we do is that not only just have a PN axcess for encryption, but actually it's all data travels over a private network, so we don't use the Internet. And then what you can do is you could actually apply. It's in...

...effect, like your cellular devices, which might be connected to verized and or atnt or chalice or whoever. Your cellular devices are like an extension and then of your MPs network. In other words, it is almost as if every device as an ethernet pulled in it, because it doesn't and it goes directly into the back of a router and because if you if you have network level consistency between your cellular devices, regardless of which Emmino they're connected to. And that's what we do. We have put it through a private network and then we connect the private network to the enterprise. Is Private, you know network. Then what you can do is you can have your security policy with that. We announce this with arms who do agent of security. You can have your security policy centrally sense what devices are connected to the network, because it's really hard to keep track of them and actually apply dynamic policy to them, because you're applying it at the transport lader. You're you're applying you're doing deep packet inspection on your cellular devices, and so that's a that's what you really want to if you're the chief security officer of this cio, the CFO is going to sign off the project. You want to say, can I apply the same security to a cellular connected IOT device and that which might be in a moving vehicle or or our part or whatever? It is the same level of security as I can apply to the devices. I can see in my office all I've now got from employees phones. And if you can do that, that a combination of the device with the security cyf get handling and the policy engine from the inside to the edge, then I think that's a that's a model at least we believe you need in order to get enterprises to trust the IOT. Yeah, project, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, let's we been up in a little while. It's a surprising you look at the clock and go wow, it doesn't sun. That's when yeah, having fun, we don't. I was going to ask you about lessons from the field, but the securities clearly one of them. One of the top things. Acid tracking is is a low hanging through the probably as bigger returns for people that than they think, which is why you're in it. Any other major lessons you've learned in your experience, Eric on? You know, we have a lot of people who listen to this because looking for advice and guidanced. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So whenever we talk to a new customer we try to be very educational and really look at it through a lens of what are the requirements? What you know? What do they really need to accomplish? What is the Roi? And so one of the first things when when you get to this class of low power wide air LP, when applications, you have to choose whether a private or a public network is the right choice. So private networks, what what I classify those are? We're be you know, maybe a lot of your listeners have heard of Laura. So it's been one of the more more popular low cost, you know, long battery life waveforms and you can stand up a Laura network relatively and expensively after install some gateways. It'll give you about two mile radius around a location, maybe a little less, depends what terrain and some other things. But as good penetration characteristics it's not super high bandwidth. But again, if you have if you're trying to say, track a vehicle, as long as it's staying within we'll say a mile, it's fine. It'll track it and you can get connectivity. But it leaves and drives away, you know you're not going to be able to cover anymore. Yeah, I'll lose it now. For certain use cases, if you're trying to track something within a large factory or campus, maybe that's sufficient. But for a majority of use cases where you have mobile assets, you need something that's going to have widespread coverage, right, and global connectivity in some cases. And that's where the new versions of cellular, the new lower bandwidth, the cat in one, then biot. Sometimes they get bundled into this overarching g revolution that we're going through. But however, you characterize it. Those are really powerful. The costs...

...are coming down, the availabilities coming down and now once you can drive down that cost it just seems like a much and and the battery consumption can be essentially the same, because Laura is known for being very low battery could ansumption. But you know, the cellular guys are really catching up quick and it just seems like a better choice if you can always see where everything is, no matter where it's, whether it's in a local area or not. The cellular growth rate we're starting to see and we're starting to recommend more cellular connectivity. One you get a better quality of service because when you install a private network you're now responsible for the network. You know whether it's your customer or Bas onlysible unlicensed spectrum, I mean on l not only that, it's just the Daytoday, things where maybe their back hall Wifi goes down, maybe they lose power. Okay, and your gateway goes out. Well, you don't necessarily have ups has on all your gateway things. Or a lot of people don't think about that, whereas the cellular community has been thinking about this for decades. Right. They have ups as at the base of every every tower, they have fall over, they have all they have, they have all kinds of things that will essentially keep that network very reliable. I mean, I think if you ask most people, would you say your cellular connection is more reliable than your Wi fi connection? I, like most people, would answer that is yes, because, you know, the cellular's been around for a long time and they've really focused on making that network very, very, you know, adorable. So when we look at Iot, more and more we're telling customers that really look at the the cellular, the cat in ones and the NBIOT for connectivity because it's more reliable, the battery efficiency is almost on par now with Laura and the cost are really coming down. And why do you want to manage your own network? It's just you have to get all the software. You basically have to get the course software for Laura, run a Laura Network server, or you have to get the gateways, you have to install them, you have to do all these topology things and make sure you're getting the right coverage map. Just let cellular just take care of that. So that's to us. That's that's one of the biggest growing things and I think analysts community is also seen that I've seen a lot of sort of predictions over the next five years that cellular is going to overtake private network. Yeah, that's what the deciety and and it just makes sense. You know, it's just a better experience, it's more reliable and you know one of the things that, and I'm by no means an expert in so you're I know you are no way more than I do, but you know, as you get into it, there's all these different types of modes within cellular. So there's psm mode, edrs, molding. Those the emailing tree and become really important, right and knowing about one. I just recently learning about sort of the nuances of some of these. But being able to if you have a device, say it's on a tractor trailer is traveling across the US, it's going to go through different coverage areas. Sometimes adnt might be strong, verising, others loses connectivity and other places really remotely. So how do you automatically switch between these networks and also preserve battery life, though you do not constantly try and anything it, and you know that. Just to explain a little bit to some people who are saying this is interesting, you want a little bit more just to explain that. The technical problem that you're describing. Their the problem is it's things like PSM, power saving mode, or the Edrx Protocol, which is you need to manage the battery, turn it on, turn it off so it doesn't drink, are often not available on a roaming agreement. That's one of our lessons learned, and if lesson learned, and it's one of those I wish I'd known that two years ago, because it is available on a direct connect if you have a proprietary same it's available. But it's not about on the roaming agream. In fact, we did a survey. You know, we have twozero customers. We do is...

...we manage multiple networks for our customers and we did a saying, I think it was eighty two, eighty three percent of the roaming agreements that we analyzed, hundreds of them, did not support both PSM and Edrx. So so only one out of five will support it. But the problem is you don't find that out till the halfway through your project, right, and so what happens is that if you go for out of network, so you have a say Verizon Sim in it or whatever Atencsi or ENV and Osim. You go out and you hop over onto somebody else's network. Give your roaming. You may find suddenly the batteries on all the time and it's a it's something it's really easy to miss in the early stage. Is because you're doing a little bench test and you know you're not taking it where you're in a local area. You're running up high area, which just find. And then you certainly someone says the batteries first to last five years and it lasted a year and they often it's a sealed device, you know, like inside a Palette. And and then you add globally seable. How can I make sure it's going to what about around the world? And so, yeah, the way we do that is is like we what we do is we localize the connection on on the Ebino, so as the hot from network to network will localizing. We're not roaming, will localizing, like the star Alliance. It's one one trip around the world, but you're going from airline to airline, to Weline, even though their competitors, but you're on the you're localizing the connection. Whildn't you get the full functionality? And it's one of those obscure things that people never asks early on, that when you talk to someone is doing it for the second time and you say to them any tips and what would you do different? Right, one of the most common ones that I had no idea how complicated telecom was. I had no idea. I mean to your point. I was going to collider research or a clind of intelligence. Excuse me, they're the roaming experts in the industryalist community. They've spun out a juniper research they said. Told me the other day there are less than ten roaming agreements globally available today for narrowband Iote. Less than ten, right, and there's eight hundred and twenty mobile network operators in the world. So what that sets is will we get there eventually? Probably, hope so. But right now, if you can to bet the farm on roaming on narrow bands, it was more on captain one, but a narrowbout the real low end. If you're going to bed the farm, then you really need to be an expert on analyzing roaming agreements. And do you want to be an expert on analyzing roaming agreements and managing mobile network operators all? Do you want to be an expert on your business case for examp writing value to your customers, and so you basically need a partner who understands telecom networks and understands devices are, because that's eighty percent and they're the lessons that we consistently here. You know, most of the projects that we do are people doing it in the second time around and it's these issues that they smacked against and it's just a fragmented, proprietary ecosystem. I mean, it is what it is. So, I mean, I think that I totally agree with you. I think acid tracking is the one and to me it's like Google for physical things. He and I we have no idea just how big it's going to be and just like Google was, once you can find information, you can create a new business models and new experiences and they'll be a old raft of companies that form based on the physical vation of Google. I completely agree, and you know it's it's huge and you know we're a firm believer that, as at tracking will be the first massive scale IOT application focus, if you will, because because it is something that everyone would want. Again, if you can get the cost low enough and the friction low enough, every business every person once that experience. It's just can we enable it? You know, and...

...guys like you and me and our companies, you know, are working at very specialized portions. That all together enablood. So, you know, with this this PSM and need Rx, for certain of our audience members, may they sound like it's down there, knowints, but when you're a manufacturer and you're guaranteeing your customer five year battery life and it's eight months later in your batteries at ten percent levelul now you got to physically go out and replace all those devices, that's not a good experience for your customer or for your bottom line. So that's probably two hundred dollars, by the way, tune of dollars on every touch you device and your customers annoyed exactly. So when you do all your calculations, which you you know, we we work with a lot of really talented hardware manufacturers and they do these simulations of what battery drain is, the characterize every nanoamp that's being drawn from every module on a custom board they may make, or or a commodity device, and they know exactly when it will run out of energy. But they didn't know about psm or e the Rx. So they're they're assuming it's going to go in deep sleep, and they certainly well. If it doesn't, it throws everything out the door and it can basically ruin it because it isn't. It kills the business case because they got case. So so these details are they're very, very important details and you know, luckily there's companies like yours that are really focusing on those details because they're very important if you're going to try to scale an IOT application. Well, that's as like a good place to finish actually, especially because you know, Iot leaders was conceived to actually help people with the to navigate through all the complexities, as trying to simplify it, because Iot is complicated. It's too complicated than it should be, but that you can navigate through and customers, you know, I mentioned Amazon. It's not just because they've got a lot of resources, but because they really got a very clear idea that this case, I think you can tell people when the parcel is going to arrive, they will feel comfortable buying it off you and just with disguised like the UBA. If I know what I ordered the you bur and I know it's going to be outside and I can track it. I'll feel comfortable because I'm then I don't hang around, you know, and we're really discovering how these attributes, these soft attributes, actually drive customer a lot of tea and, of course, reduce his huge amounts of cost for the company doing it. So it's a win win. So it's been a great podcast. Eric. I think we could have gone to x over. So every better not do it because people will be saying enough enough, but I really appreciate the cooperation with you and you and you your company and I totally agree. I think this is going to be the killer APP if you can find anything anywhere without knowing where it is, by asking for it, providing you have the permission, that is the one that's going to change the world. So thanks again for being my guest. I know you're in a very nice part of the world right now, so it's probably pretty warm what we up out there and Scottsdale, Arizona, in July, and my guess is, what's it going to be out there today? Like forty? That's in it's a great yeah, low hundreds of Fahrenheit, probably close to forty celigrade. Oh that's right. That's just put yea but but it's a dry heat, as they say. Rights, it's a dry that's what they always say. Okay, and so thank you to the listeners for listening. This has been the IOT leaders podcasts. If you want to get in touch will actually Eric, I should ask you this question. If listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way they can do that? They could just send an email to eric at leveragecom. Leverage as spelled with all ease, so it's L ve argecom. Okay, leverage with all thesecom and you want to get in touch me, you can send a message to Iot Lee is Si seyecom or my direct email and earl and Eaarli at SICOM. But...

...this has been a great episode and I've got lots of insight and we we went from high level business the future of Iot in the killer at right down to you doing granny of the battery life managements, which is what you got to do in this space. Hope that was useful for the listeners and thanks again, Eric for joining me and being my guest on the IOT leaders podcast. Thanks that, because always a pleasure. I speak with your thanks. Thanks for tuning in to Iot leaders, a podcast brought to you by SI. Our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, hoping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to Iot leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to plot the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening. Until next time,.

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