IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode · 1 year ago

Scaling the Adoption of IoT w/ Dimitrios Spiliopoulos

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The way to scale IoT adoption is to simplify and automate. Not everyone needs to have a cybersecurity expert on their team. Most of the time, the IoT services can provide ample security — and much more.

In this episode, Nick interviews Dimitrios Spiliopoulos, Senior IoT Specialis at, EMEA at AWS , about how he addresses the biggest challenges that clients face in scaling IoT.

Dimitrios and Nick talk about:

  • Why clients with cloud still need hardware
  • Providing support to customers through partner relationships
  • Connectivity, edge computing, and security
  • IoT growth in the industrial sector

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You're listening to Iot leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings and Mrs Lessons Learned in Innovation Strategies that work. In each episode you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. Let iot leaders be your guide to Iot digital transformation and innovation. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the next edition of the IOT leaders podcast with me, your host, nickel, the CEO of Si, and I'm delighted on this podcast to have my guest Demetrios Bileiopolis, and Demetrius is from a tows, Amazon web services. He's the senior Iot specialist for Emia, for AWS or. Demetrius, welcome to the IOT leaders podcast. Thank you very much, neck, for the invitation and for a having me here today. I'm very keen to discuss with you. Thanks again. You're very welcome, as am I now, Demetrius. And as you will know, and hopefully some of the listeners, no, aws and S I do have a history together in the IOT space. We've been partners for, Oh, I would say, just coming up to five years, I think, and we have a lot of mutual customers and we've learned a lot of the things together in that time and I'm sure we'll cover a few of those things in the brief time that we've got here. But just for the moment, maybe you could just explain. What is your role involved? What does the senior IOT specialist premier involved ABS yeah, it involves many things. It is more around the business development for a IOT business. I belong in the IOT worldwide Specialist Organization of it ws where we help as specialist. We're helping a customers with it. These are deformation projects where Iot is involved, but also we're helping our colleagues internally, like account managers and other colleagues, to understand better Iot, but also help the customers. So it has a element of nament internally, but also building a with the customers outside and trying to understand get feedback, with back from what are the needs, what are the trends, and feedback the the service team that they're build the Iot service for a Wus and there are in there and focusing more on a scaling activities, trying to scale the adoption of Iot in general, where is my passion, but also the adoption of a Wsiot Mont of service. Yeah, and I mentioned that we've been working the others too, companies, for five years. One of the one of the reasons that we thought that hbus would be a couple of reasons really why we thought aws would be successful in this space. Fest of all, just looking at the numbers, you know, we talked about you know, eighty percent of the data is going to be at the edge as the number of devices grows exponentially, at the age. Of course, aws really makes money by a capturing data, by giving insight, by adding value to data, and then with all the applications who manipulate the data, and so it's natural that aws would follow, if you like, the data to the edge. But the second thing is, and I think this is really emerging, from my perspective at least, it second reason is the global nature of aws. I mean, I've talked a lot on this podcast about our focus being global customers, global deployments, which is where multi country, multi regions were a lot of issues often come out because of the fragmented proprietary nature of the mobile network market place and landscape and, of course, awus being inherently a global capability is something which...

...gives lots of value to customers. So let's let's double click and and go into what sort of issues do you must meet a lot of customers all the time, as you said. What sort of issues do your customers talk to you about? What are you finding? Are Their their biggest challenges? Yeah, I think the type of standards is a changing right every year, because now, I think I please become more mature. Many more companies that doing using Iot or they're singing very seriously. We're not like three or five, ten years ago, that it was very like emerging technology. Now and we are in the more going to the maturity. So I would start with the first challenge for the companies that they have already started their Iote Churney, which is that, okay, they connected the product, they launch it in the market, they had some success and now they're thinking, okay, what are we going to do more with Iot, with our already connected product? But also they're there wondering what they would do with a version two of their product and how they will be able to monetize the data they have or how they are going to their thinking how they can have more data that can offer more value to their customers or create new services and made more revenues for their business. So customers are coming to us not only for the services, several lessons, say IOT services, but they're coming also to to listen from us how they can get value from their iot data, and we have several ways that we try to help them. One is with a some idason workshops and we try to use the Amazon innovation culture. They working a backwards, as we say, Amazon, where we try to heal the customer to think what they want to do, like to get the press release with wants to be the final announcement of their product, and also give them the tools, would say, to analyze the data. This is something lasting. That's interestingly you do that. I didn't know you actually had formalized that process. I was reminded as you were saying. It almost like playing golf, you know, people say you know you play backwards from the whole. You know how many, how many shots? Work started with the destination and work backwards. It's a common business technique. So you actually formalized it. You're saying it almost like start off write the press release, the marketing release, whatever, of what you want the success story to be and then you got a clear idea of what success looks like and then work backwards, as opposed to start with some technology and work forward solving a problem at the time. The exactly where you go about it. That's interesting. That the yeah, instead of a you know, starting with a technology, or lets do Iot, or let's use these a w services and partners, we're saying, okay, this is a press release, what would like to announce? And then we held the customer and this is absertainly the methodology that the Amazon and it Wa's use it for use for all these years. So we have made make it. The other works up to help asked about customers, you know, learn and do the Lenon practice these methodology. So if you go to do that, I presumably then that means that you you get a selection of different people from the customer to come into some sort of ideation workshop. I mean just the pure technology people. I wouldn't be enough with it because they would say, well, I don't know, I've just been asked to do a certain task or I've got solved this problem. So you actually ask for a certain I don't know, job titles or people management as well as technical definitely. Yeah, that's a good point because you know, with additional Ip workloads, usually we had...

...the relationship with it people, right CEIOS, but now with IRP, I think we and certainly ws. I'm sure you see those rat in your business. The discussing is not only with the IP or procurement, but mainly with a business development with innovation teams, many times with the CEO the company, because we're speaking about transformation or the innovation and changing processes business models. So yeah, we try to invite the even the CEO of the company, CFO, marketing people, sales within development and of course they take them of the customer. So okay, that's interesting. So that I want to go back to the point that you said and skipped over because I think it's very Urson and one of the things, and that was this issue of I think he is the Phrase v two of the product, and one of the reasons for doing this podcast, I've mentioned it before and previous ones with previous guests, is that, you know, we didn't start off saying or we want to be in the podcast business. We actually we're finding that people really needed help and advice and they wanted people to guide them through various steps and and and you've just mentioned that. And the Heaf of the IOT leaders podcast series came about and you've just mentioned that, because you said, well, version one, they've got it to work, but they put it's essentially a you know, in the bench on it in the office. It works. The prototype works, but having a prototype working and then going for a national or global rollout with all the different components and having to solve it. The connectivity. You mentioned the device, which I'm sure will come on to, which is a big issue. The data, capturing the data, what to do with the data. So is that also a common thing? After you've done the vision thing, I guess you're there in the process with the customer and you seem to be saying that many customers get going, I guess, fairly quickly. But then where they really need help is scaling it to V too, yeah, or scaling him from the view and because they made do it pure see of broad day. But then they need to scale. Yeah, and yeah, we see customers that they're trying to do everything themselves and sometimes it can take one or two years, but which is very long. Great, maybe your product is outdated after two years. That your idea from three years ago must really stay al with exactly. Yeah, we tad to bring a partners and always recommended to our customers to work closely with our partners in order to accelerate these journey. Plus, we also tray to we have a prototyping team which is designed to keep the customers start at the right way for a professional services. But yeah, we always try to give, you know, the full support the customer, especially through our partners, in order to not wait for a long time until they make a production ready product and scale quickly. And then the other things around security, right around the IT's computing, how to do it at the right way, how to reduce the risks. Yeah, yeah, and I mentioned at the beginning of the I'm going to get onto security in an edge competing in a second, but let's take three, three subjects a bit differ in now lice with the connectivity, the edge competing in and the security. If we set off with the connectivity, I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that you know we've been powering for almost five years now. One of the areas that we parted in was on the connectivity side, and it's insane. What's happened since those early days, because we started off saying, you know, we have the any net sin which which can connect to over seven hundred networks. Therefore you can put a create a single skew, a manufacturing skew like, for Shat, a single skew for a robotic laumer, sell it around the world in multiple countries. People...

...take it home by through retail, take it home, switch it on and it works. But what's now happening is we're seeing that the telecoms market, and we talked about this in other podcasts as well as been is fragmenting even more in the roaming agreements or are actually breaking down because of the financial model in roaming there's just not enough money, particular the low end on Narrowband, and so you now getting an even more fragmented market. Features like power saving mode not available on many roaming agreements. Therefore it even more difficult to take that V one and scale it because you now you have to think about all the different connectivity in all the different markets and and all of this this work. And that's that was the genesis of the relationship between us. That we say well, with our skew we handle that and we localize that the connection in each market. But you mentioned security. We also did some early work together with with adbus on on device defender. Security is a big issue for a customers. It must come up, been in every in every every conversation that you have. What sort of questions and what sort of concerns and advice to people really? What are the concerns that they have? What advice are you are they wanting from you in the area of security, because it's such a broad, broad topic. Priority exactly. Yeah, I mean we see customers coming to us, you know, asking about the basic like how to start with the securities, how to do the basics right, how to do the you know, the access management properly, to not give access to everyone today they dataa or do their store to their data, or how to minimize them the access to its person based on what they have to do at Da job. So these are some basics which are not only for ieity right, this classic Ip security, but also about the encryption, like all the aws, I perviss are encrypted by by default. So this something we always recommend the customers about the device idea, how to manage them at cave and and they key identify the device a identity. This also how to be able to know that your device is not compromised, then it's not discoming the message or data from another source. So we try to help with all of these. Our solution architects, actually the specialized Iot are getting in these discussions for a security for the hiot core service. But this is a thing, is a basic security, as you mentioned, the place defend the right. So this is the service that we always recommend the customers for a extra security of the devices. The service is designs for a IOT sensors. It's not for something else with is design on the for a connected devices. And I think the most interesting thing that maybe it's worth it to here for the audience, is that since December, will launch a new feature at the device defender, which use machine learning in order to identify a normally is at the last fourteen days. Animal is that the network, at the traffic and at the behavior of the device, so it can send alert and take medication actions. So iling Nick is more about now how we try to we try to. We received many questions, but we see that it's quite complicating sometimes rice for customers to handle all of this. So we started to simplify an automate kind of many of the processes. So No, only to have a super cyber security expert in the team. And it's interesting that you talk about machine learning because when...

I mentioned the the number of devices is growing exponentially at the edge. It is our belief, as well as their side, that the only way you can actually do define and propagate and monitor security policies is is to do it centrally and use techniques like machine learning to do sort of pattern recognition at the edge. When we're describing a security to people, I say look, that's it's hard for a lot of people to wrap their head around what that means and and we say, well, think of like the nest. Nest them is said, look and that's them's that they say, you know, is more intelligent than human because it does pattern matching. What Room? We're all creatures of habit what room do we go in more often? It knows the tempt clearly and knows the temperature outside. It knows the forecast, but it also knows that you don't need the you know, the the third bedroom heating on because you never go in there and and it can monitor you. But then if you apply that to tens, hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of devices, the idea of using machine learning to recognize patterns and in this case, as you say, a normally detection. So it's not that these things will will, you know, magically stop any security breach. But the first thing is early recognition of unusual behavior and and because devices are creatures, devices of habits, if you like, and the earlier you can recognize unusual behavior, the quicker you can look at it. It might be fine, you say, that's fine, that's something going on there. I'm okay with that, or it might be not fine, because time is so critical, isn't it? When, when there's any sort of security problem, the one of the key issues is is is not reacting to it. It's the fact that by the time you spotted it, often the damage is day order. We then defied date at their real time that something is going wrong. Yeah, yeah, and and given it, you guys also can issue security certificate of security, issue certificate issuing authority. As a higher scale, cloud provide a UR in a great position to to actually issues, reissue the certificate and to help seal the device, if you like, and that our alliance was around taking that with device depender, which we help launch. Review seems like a long time ago now on stage in Chicago. But but the the ability to actually take the device across our network, which is also encrypted. Of course we don't use the public internet. We only we only use encryption, a private networking at all stages. So that's to its network level security, which is very important, and the ability to then store the sets in the sin with all the security keys is a key part of it. All of which brings us to the third subject, which is the hardware side. That's another big area as well. I am the phrase that I'm hearing more and more is anyc or mobile edge compute. You know, we've all lived through this time when we thought that hardware wasn't important. Actually, I would say due to success of the hyperscale card providers like us is like, well, I just need a browser, you know. I know there's hardware, but I'm not managing it anymore. I'm just doing work and just I'm just program and and so, you know, phrases were thrown around like, you know, software is eating hardware, it's all about the software. Even company valuations were very much geared towards software company is not harder. That's three yeah, and then suddenly mobile edged compute arrived and you mentioned the sensors, and suddenly now...

...there's there is a very important piece of hardware at the edge, which is an aggregation point which is now going to have to deal with certain sensors in a you with unique business logic, in fact, that the business case comes together at the edge. And suddenly you've got all these people who thought that they were going to do an Iot project, maybe buy an off the shelf device like you buy a mobile phone from a phone shop. But actually it's not. I mean, our experience were hardware camp as well as average sign camp, as well as as as well as Suce, Iot Company, Consulting Company. But but I would say ninety percent of devices and projects that we get involved in require customer specific hardware. How are you finding your your your customers and prospects are wrapping the head around suddenly having to think about hardware when they have spent the last ten, fifteen years thinking it's just all in the cloud and you don't have to do it any I mean I think that you know it's not that they were nothing about harder. But yeah, I think you're right that they were reducing the value or the importance or the harder in their business. But now we think how we try to do is, as we said, to simplify rate, to simplify everything like that's why we a few years ago, we acquired the Preatos, which is a open source operating system for the micro controllers, or a green grass, you know it very well. In December we are not that this is a open source and more a modular so, you know, you can use some models of a green grass for your age software and take only what you need. So we try to make it easier to our services to work on different on this variety of a hardware, and of course we count on our partners to build the first one for the consultancy of our partner that our partners provide, but also to build with our partners, a hardware that is, you know, easier to deploy the a wsiot services or other things. Yeah, and I think with the age computing, your age, that will see more and more everything is coming at the device level, not everything, but the big majority as a year's pass and also that's why, for us, in a ways, withink Iot and aid. Two super important because when the cloud, but many will be in the factory, the warehouse, at the terminals for ailing us. Yeah, yeah, when the prior to me running as I want, I was a sister that it is my last three boy years. It's concessions, and my last three boy years I was actually competing with a syronic cloud program for assistent globally club manage services. And you, how do you failed, viserably, not that the goal was to try and stop at views, but it was actually try and replicate a lot of what age respect for the scale that you guys had was was pretty difficult to replicates. In the end it was more an embrace strategy. But one of the things I always used to say two people when I was explaining why why ad us was so effective, was that you really did, in my view, at least two things really, really well. It is simplifying things, a demonistic. I simplified them and you did it multiple times. It was a releases of software every day. The debox model is the many new features that were coming every day, solving problems, and then also scale, the ability to really scale in a simple way, and that's relevant in terms of the hardware, because the approach that we've taken, working with you, mentioned Green Grass, is to actually...

...say how could you apply the lessons of simplifying scale to the hardware level? And so one of the things that we've done we have our own routers and we just release a new one, of course, the the here seven hundred, which has a the US on their optimized big environments programmabile router. You can program in Python on the cloud and download the application to her the edge, edge router. So it makes them simpler. We've also taken that that the scaling damn to the silicon level. And another announcement that we did with you guys was with formerly Jamalto an ount Talas. Now, yeah, we're actually you have their intelligent plug connect, which is essentially a module or an edge agregation a device which which contains everything in the silicon. So when you switch the module on or the edge aggregation device on, it actually registers as a thing on the I aid to us IOT thing repository, the services provision, the security cilicate is generated from within Aga Wus Iot and is stored automatically in the module and the idea is is that it's a it's just to eighteen commands, sort of published and subscribe, but it's to eighteen commands to term the device on which is a is a significant for those listeners who know about how difficult it has been to connect devices to hyperscale cloud and to make them secure, register and provision the service, it's a significant breakthrough. And then, of course, you get the ability for it to connect to any network globally. So so I think we're both on this approach to try and constantly simplify it, because as much of it as the progress is good that we've made so far, silver or more feedback we get at least, is that. Then the one of the biggest inhibitors is the complexity, and we started off talking about that. People still come down. I still think we've got a way to go, but but but work in the area of hardware and scalability, the silicon layer, the security side, and then giving people in the right in that yeas, means we're making progress. So only that you mention rate the digression of your connectivity platform with a a Wsiot, which makes it much easier to deploy tslow to secure your device is a thing, and also with a tails tomato is are. All of these are great thinking examples to the right direction. And I think because we are going now to more maturity with Iot and man, more and more companies are selling a using iot. I don't think there is so much talent outside, so much so many experts in the market. What a technical IOT experts, so to help traditional companies, you know, build a good products, connect good products. So that's why I think this kind of partner sips and they simplicity that we try to bring the market is a way to scale Iot rate. It's the way too, I may be accessible for a more companies, more people. Well, I actually Saspery, we we challenge our our speep of sells. I won't mention This Day of the school I change or itself. I said, look, if this product is a simple that it will do everything, we just touch that, then a child should be able to use it. And he said, well, I've got one of those. I've got twelve year old daughter. So so we made it ahead of our quality testing department for a week and so we got these boxes from Dallas and and she's twelve year old at home as it wanted to take it home and see if your daughter...

...can make it work without any help from you, and, to her credit, she did. She had a small issue. She has a small issue and it was actually due to an error in the documentation. We then fix that, but she fought. I mean kids are amazing. They they follow things well and they quite happy doing a bit of research. Anyway, she got it to work, so we gave a certificate. As a head of testing, I did threaten to make the sales the sales manager, do the same thing live in front of the rest of the management team, but we decided not to see not'ss hit. Put Him on, put him on that platform. But the point, the series point being, is that when we say things have got to be easy, it's it can't be a it definition of easy. I mean it's sort of like a can a twelve year old do it and can you truly switch it on? Follow us are instructions. It's not. It's not instant, but follows some instructions and within a few minutes have it working. And it has to be easy to get the adoption and that's something that we're all working on. There are customers out there, of course, who are really doing extremely well. We always try and highlight them in this podcast, and so I've got one of particular I wanted to talk about. But but if we go first with yourself, de metrious, can give us perhaps a customer example of somebody who you think of done something fairly innovative? After you mentioned partners, working with a partner that maybe give it a show times to to a customer who is done things well. Yeah, I would like my movie to mention one a customer who has worked with a site as a partner but also with another day partner here in a UK. The name is a greencaster. So they got summers. That we have to explain. So you said that quickly. Is Excuse me for jumping in, but some people say, what did you say? Did you say yes, as so it's a company's partner, both of us actually, which are formed by Mr Green, Mr Cus. Yeah, inside to actually call the company Green custed. So anyway, I just started. Just explain. Yeah, let me do the history of the name. But yeah, you're right, into very distict how they created the name. But so this is like a local system with the greater for a Iott and we work very closely. So in the customer is a Martin Engineering. Yeah, that the their American company in there providing balque material handling equipment and services around the world. So they have a bell like cleaners, conveyancing bells, blades for a mining industry, for a heavy industrial sectors. They provide the material handling solutions. So what they wanted to do was to connect the equipment in order to be able to do real time a remote monitoring to understand, you know, the conditions of their equipment and send all arts to the engineers when the bells are going to when they are very dirty or when they need replacement, or when they need to stop the massine and try to do it a practically or to schedule the maintenance at the right time instead of stopping the production of the customers, which would cost them a lot of thousands hour. And Yeah, I say it was the global connectivity provider. They wanted a global solutions, so they came to a sigh to have this global coverage, to be everywhere connected, and they use it wsiut services like a sidewise sociotic or divide defender. We mension device management and our partner bring us that. They help them bring everything together and deployed from the US to around the world using clouts for information and...

...other services. So this is really howe very traditionally, you know company with they how they are trying to connect. They're not just the one my scene in they the local business, but how they are going at the key to connect the indil acids, which are expensive and they're really valuable for the day customers, and how doing going full production. And that the global a m deployments. Interesting that the would be. Often when I ask the question about to guess on the PODCAST, can you give a shout out to a customer, it's often the innovative, you know startups or innovative they and and of course the big potential is for the install base of legacy equipment that's out there and you mentioned, you know, conveyor belts and industrial company that's been around for a long time. Yeah, the payback of smart enabling legacy equipment, the Industrial Iot or the in, some people call it, the interface between it and ot, information technology and operational technology. That's actually where a lot of the Roi in the payback and the opportunity for IOT is. And and if you can actually take classic almost heavy equipment a type scenarios and smart enable it. The the opportunity is huge, not least in which the most common business case we've seen is, and I'm sure it's the case here, is the maintenance process, is the ability to interrogate devices to find out what's wrong before you actually send somebody out there to find out its confirm that it's wrong, to then go back to get the part are that they now know that they need to come back, that we snce down time, and so the Roi for doing that is huge. If we can then do that globally with the same solution, the same same the same connectivity, the same cloud solution, the same security policy, that the paybacks are enormous because previously this stuff wasn't possible. I'm going to give a s think the industrial sector is where I think we see the most interest and demand this year, which is very distinct and especially from the traditional companies that they are starting now. They they you know, I would jernate, and they use only the business case is that they if they the production stuff for one hour, they may lose a you know, three com a k AD dollars or pounds whatever, or half a million. In the mining industry, no oil and gas, where it's so the business case is so clear for the companies are using Iot yes, it is a fascinating, totally every yeah, you're your favorite example. Yeah, yeah, well, well, least on this one. I just want to highlight that again, what you just said, because I think a lot of people have missed that. How much you're going to give it an example of a startup. But but, but, before I do the like you said, you know, what is one hour of downtime worth to you, or cost you? Right, and and and and it can be Tenzero, a hundred thousand. It can be half a in the oil wellhead, you know, if you can't drill or you have to stop the rig. You know, it can be a million dollars. And at that point you suddenly realize that that's where the opportunity is. But people don't know how to Iot enable legacy products measure of the value sometimes. Yeah, and then that's what you can do with these edge aggregation devices. Because the thing about a conveyor belt or we are customers that do big industrial boilers. Were two thousand customers of it. I guess most of them in the legacy product space. But these products all have controllers on them, so they have a small port where you can plug a little cable in and you can get information out of them, and often engineers use that information just to diagnose it when they're on site.

But the moment be the fact that you have a controller in the device of some sort up to the hourist two interface or something means you can put an edge aggregation device in with cellular and actually start to do this remotely and then start to actually do the sort of case studies that we're talking about. So I do believe that Itot is almost the forgotten area of it and I think of Iote and I think that's where a lot of the case studies, I totally agree with a lot of the big success case studies will be with these huge install base of legacy equipment that's not smart and is about to become smart. So I having said all of that, I do want to give a shout out to accompany. It's actually a company that it's just one an award. One An award from juniper research for the most innovative belief. The title is most innovative Iot Solution. It's a company called I'll curis Alcu are is, and we talked about areas and which Iot makes a contribution, and this is in their healthcare area. It's a it's a very simple but on on paper, idea, but one which I think we can all identify with it. It's to do with again, it's pattern matching. It's another area pattern matching, but in this case it's humans and their behavior and actually elderly relatives. So so the idea of I don't know that your your mum is living on our own and you worried about her, and the idea of putting little sensors around the house, tiny little things. They could be in the bed so you can find out whether she's lying on the bed or she's out of bed. They could be on the bathroom door as she passed the bathroom door to go to the bathroom of the night. And and then you you know, by the kettle, as the kettle been switched on. It's a British company, so switch on for a cavity and and and then the idea is, by putting these senses around the phone, you very rapidly build up a pattern of predictable behavior and what you can then say is a well, I'm going to have an alert which is if mum gets out of bed in the night, goes to the bathroom but doesn't get back in bed. Then alert obvious one or it's made a cup of tea. Her cumpan tea hasn't made a cup of tea and it's twenty minutes later the normal. Maybe I'll call her. So it's all goes into the phone and it's a very simple idea. But the market segment took about the Roi. The market segment is the care home, a business where people send cares out into the community and the idea is that the well, the thing that they're addressing is that often people will get three visits in a day from different cares calling in on the same person, and so there are tens of, not hundreds of thousands of cares working for councils whose job is just to go and check on people. You don't get the human element, but you do you can perhaps say you know what you should either prioritize who you don't need to check on because they seem to be okay, or the other side of it. No, no, go back to this person now. They're not you a check, but there's something going on. So it actually is a great thing for the obviously the patients. It's a great thing for the local councils, and this is a local councils on loving it because it allows them to optimize directly immunity. Very simple anacos for relatives who can get all the information from the phone. It's a very, very, very simple idea. These senses are very cheap, the very small, they're easily to install and again it's pattern matching, which comes back to your machine learning thing and you can imagine in the future you could really start taking this to many, many more levels once you introduce machine learning into these healthcare environments exactly, and I think like we should. You mentioned the human element rate, but I think if they come still is able to reduce the three visits just to which have the papers, just to...

...take the elder is fine. They can't do like one visit for a day maximum, but this could be like twenty millions. We have human exactly. Look human have as in that kind a chat which might be the only they may be the only person they speak to that day, and certainly an idea of all the benefits around mental health and and combating loneliness. It does really some of the IOT health studies, a case studies are quite touching in terms of what Iot does, not from a technology point of view, but what Iot can do to change people's quality of life. And some of them are are quite a quite amazing what they can do. And you're absolutely right, you know, just spend more time with somebody, quality time yet for both the patient and the care actually well, list and we can talk about hours to be three us, because I know we've got very, very customers together, but I did want to perhaps bring this together and with one final question and say I'm sure people have been fascinated by this conversation. A people want more information. Is there any source of information or whether you go to get more get more information about what it is that you guys do? Yeah, first of all, if this for something specific, you know they can reach out to me by Linkedin the miterspio blows Iot or dimits Iote, and they will find me. But also, for sure they can find many information on the website. A WS IOT is a Google and they will find it. But also recently, I think this is very important, and especially for existing aws customers or for companies that the considering to use the a WS aot services we recently published a well architecture review with very popular document from a guess, but so far it was a dinner for cloud the ID services. But now we will publish the document, which is well, I actual review with Iot Lens. So it's focusing only on the IOT and covers security, scalability, reliability, resilience, acce, divid access, a control, so all of these things like basically based practice. Is that someone that follow around the AWASOP and they yeah, I could take a well expected of you Iot Lens. You will find it the online and spread the download the great. So let's bring it to conclusion. Thanks again, Jametrios, for your time and your insight and indeed your partnership between the two companies. You've been listening to the IOT leader's podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I certainly needed, and thanks again for the discussion. Take a thanks for tuning in to Iot leaders, a podcast brought to you by SI. Our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, helping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to Iot leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to fought the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening. Until next time,.

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