IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode 23 · 4 months ago

How IoT Solves the Final Mile Problem


How is IoT transforming supply chains and logistics? Jono Doyle, Product Manager at BT Final Mile, speaks with Nick about how the company is using IoT to solve the "Final Mile Problem."

Using a UK based network of IoT enabled intelligent lockers, they ensure engineers get the right parts at the right time and in the right place. This ensures that engineers are closer than ever to the specific parts they need, spending less time on the road and more time focused on delivering customer service.

Join us as we discuss:

  • The importance of final mile delivery to logistics
  • How people solved the “final mile problem” before BT Final Mile
  • BT Final Mile’s transformation into a logistics company
  • How IoT enabled intelligent lockers work and the business benefits
  • The future of IoT enabled technologies in the logistics space

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You're listening to Iot leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings and this has lessons learned and innovation strategies that work. In each episode you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. What IOT leaders be your guide to Iot Digital Transformation and innovation? Let's get into the show. So, John Oh, welcome to the IOT leaders podcast. Thanks Nick. It's a it's good to be here. Okay, we're going to talk about supply chain and logistics and a pretty innovative iot solution here, and it's an area that certainly, from my perspective, it really think too much about. Is Not the most obvious area for Iot, but it actually is really innovative and and it's got a great Roi. Essentially it's a very clear business benefit and it's in the area of supply chain and logistics. So you work now for Bet Bet, pretty showy. Come Final Mile, we'll get into how you ended up in bet. I'm a mile, because that's an interesting story in itself. But first of all is way of context for the listeners and indeed the viewers who watch it on the video option that. Could you just talk a little bit about bet final mile and what you're doing, why you're doing it and what problem you solve? Yeah, so I guess I need to grow up a bat final miles and and to do a final mile is, and it's almost exactly what it is. It's the final mile off the logistics problem. So it's about getting the goods, to parcels, to package, whatever it is, to the person who needs it, when and where they need it. So I thought we're quite good in logistics of getting stuff to somewhere and having lots of stuff there and people coming there and getting it, but you know, oftentimes that's really far away. It's you know, it's a hub, the quick column hubs, it's quite a popular term. And basically what that means people need to go to these places and obviously that create a bottle neck and journeys for people that don't particularly need them. So find the mill is about that, that final mile off delivery. So not just getting to whole but after that, how do you get to the person? So that's what the final mile is and quite a bat final mile is is a solution to that problem. For me, it's the solutionistems to be the best needs very cold. These people who, I mean it sounds a little bit like Amazon, but there's a specific group of people, you know. I mean it's not as I understand it. It's not Mrs Smith waiting in the House for a parcel and has to drive to a hub to pick up a parcel from Amazon. But it's not what we're talking about it. No, it's not. I guess it's a similar it's to be the PE problem. So it's what the businesses face, so particularly engineer field services. So these people who go around installing your your modems or gas meters, going up to Telegraph Pos these people who actually they also needs off. They're not just ordering things off, I'm as on or ebaying and delivered there, you know, ordering things normally off their own business or or from somewhere, and they still need to get that stuff. Obviously it's quite important for them where. You know us at home, when we buy something online, were somewhat okay. We're being dropped next door to the old lady down end of the street in a business setting. That's not really acceptable that we can't say yeah, it's Mrs Smith in the road. Good days. You new smart gas meter. Yeah, really didn't appreciate carrying it into a house because it's a let's. So we're talking about field service engineers, which is a pretty broad...

...category of people because, I mean, you've already said it. Bet Don't do gas meters. So straight away you can see that what you're talking about is is this, you know, feel service engineers in general. Yes, some of them might be bet putting a new router into your house or coming to do something to your house and the getting the parts which will go into but but this is a an industry issue for anybody who has a field so of this team. It's a generic industry problem and opportunity, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, but for everyone from, you know, to breakdown car breakdown guys to yet, as I said, the guys who go telegraph Poles, you know, people who look after fleet vehicles, you know, all these sort of people require parts and they can't have them delivered to their homes. You know, they don't have the time to be going into the local post office with the Little Red Card and saying here, I've got a parcel, here's my idea. Can I get that now? You know they don't have the time. If you have you have thirty six gas meters in the so so this is a broad industry solution because a lot of companies, arguably anyone who sells things to businesses, have field maintenance feel support teams. It's a multi billion dollar industry and those teams need spare parts, they need access to products. As you say, it's not. It's not the Amazon model. So the field service engineer doesn't get an Amazon delivery, Amazon prime at seven a end with all of the parts. So they presumably they have to go and collect them somehow. They have to get them and they have to I guess they're spending a lot of time doing that, which is what's at the heart of this. So maybe, just to start off with, how how did, how does the industry in general solve the issue of getting products and pots to field service engineers? Yeah, so the solutions exist that aren't our IOT product. Just a couple of them out there. Some of them are are quite quite strange and I was quite shocked when I learned about them. And the simple ones are sort of what we call Pudo's pick up ther boff. So that's similar to what you would see is, you know, if you were going to a royal male office to pick up your your parcel. It's a more intry sounded like that. They go into their warehouse and I got to desk at the warehouse and says, can I have my ten gas meters please, and the guy goes off guards ten gaspects in the back and give it to him, you know. So there's that solution, which obviously causes its own problems. And what especially, I would imagine, especially if thirty people would arrived at one time? Yeah, well, that's the thing that you know, all these people are starting, all these engineers are start at the same time. They're all starting, you know, half seven eight clock in the morning. So they're all meeting there half seven, eight o'clock in the morning, and that obviously means you've got thirty engineers, some poor right hide the desk after click, all these guy behind the test with a yeah, it's got to get thirty thirty. Guess the castile you guys need to exactly and the news. And these engineers are people, so they, you know, their friends show up, are going to stop and have a chat and not, you know, going to rush away and to work either. So, yeah, they're dessert of problems with that and also that, you know, the sort these these poodle locason, these hopes aren't always in the convenient, okaytion for for the engineers to get to. A lot of times they require driving through a town, you decide, the town around two an indre state. Maybe that don't doesn't really fit in with their their day and their schedule. And the other solutions then are literally, seems, having a room in in a building and they just go in. Their stuff has been dropped there the night before with everyone's that else the stuff. But if they've ordered, you know, a branding new pack of spanners, because there's all the rusty and they're like well, I need something one say order,...

...but then their mate John shows up, you know, five minutes for them because I ah, they're nice and Shiney, I'll have them for myself and taste them. You know, it can result in some things like, well, people stills going missing and go and walk abouts and then so we're not getting their gas meter or, you know, smart meter installed because the tools are gone missing and and I think we could all identify with that. Because of these supply change issues are often covered up. Should we say to the consumer. All the consumer knows is that you got a delivery slaughter of the engineers coming to fix your fridge or install whatever, and they'll be there, you know, in the morning or the afternoon. You looking at that level of granularity and then you find that they don't show and it's very frustrating. And of course one of the reasons they don't show is because, I guess a pretty common reason actually is because the parts were either the spanners, as you say, were either chosen by the guy who got through the door first or the parts were just not there, or the supply chain, the delays in the supply chain, mean that they just couldn't get to job number seven. They only got six done that day and therefore they didn't shut up. So this is a an enormous problem, the distribution of physical goods for supply chain engineers. So that's what we're talking about and no one's really cracked it and and none of the consumer delivery companies are in this business. They're into be Toc. You're solving a beat a be problem. So let's start off by now going back in time, because you actually were part of the company that beat a quired to solve this problem, which I believe was called Pelly pod. So this of all, let's talk about John Oh. So give me the brief history of John Oh, because I believe you went from university to Pelly pod with yeah, which which was the company that was started, to with an idea to solve this is the right that's yeah, that's same, exactly what happened. Yeah, I am I graduated in product design in Ireland and pretty much when I finished that, it was it was during the sort of the end of the crash, economic crash, which I feel like we've have many now those. Yeah. So, yeah, and from every really only you. The financial crash, you would run a two thousand. Yeah, the financial that lay crush. Yeah, it was a was a little bit older's remember a couple before that. Yeah. Yeah, so for me my options were a little bit limited in Ireland at the time and so I started looking jobs brought I was I was young. So I saw this job advertised, I think it was on one of the what are the websites for four jobs that are around, applied for it and got a call off. Mark, who was one of the one of the founding members off Pennypod and saying to come over to London for an interview. Shift up myself. I book my flights a range of time. I'll sort it's to meet them, probably rum midday or or afternoon and in Heathrow for an interview. And we gets to think. One Am to aim is some ridic sturlier. And I get a call back. When got the good customer service existed every airlines? Call from the airline saying my flights been canceled and basically, did they get me the offer ass option to get on an earlier fight? Three am or something in the morning. So I have to go. Wait, got my home with DA give me a good l shake and say here, you need to drop me to the arewhere. More now this story about solving global supply chains all comes down to you shaking your dad awake as it's three... to get you to go for the first flight out of Dublin or ever. Yeah, Dublin in the heat, throw, yeah, and yeah. There then obviously long wait in the airport. Then to me to meet the guys to my interview. Pros job, I got a job. Yeah, I didn't scare them moth. I had a take her Irish accent then, and I do know. So it didn't scare them out. I wasn't going to mention anything. All right, so this a you. You were early, the first engineer on board. Is the right yeah, there are the rest of the people were weren't really engineers. They were, you know, Carl, who's idea it was, who, I guess, you new systems, who was very ite. Are based going in. The rest were, I centier background or just management backgrounds. So I was the first sort of engineer, but I was a product designer, you know, I wasn't really an engineer. And so you found yourself. You found yourself with wells will you own you data fab because you shook him out of shook him awake at that time. Pot. But you got the job and you found yourself in a startup called Petty pod, which was not exactly directly related to the degree that you did. But then a lot of us in the similar sort of situation. And what was petty pods? So this is just around the time with a crash. So we can date it to like two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, or something like that, I guess. Well, it was the end of the crash. Shows in the early teens. All right. Yeah, and what was pretty POD's idea? What was the big idea? Yeah, well, then it was a BBC solution. That was that was what we thought it was going to be and where our focus was. So it was to create a still finalmile solution, but maybe something more similar to its what your listeners will be will know, like your Amazon lockers, stuff like that. This was something that you know sits outside your front door. Yeah, and and essentially, someone comes along with your parcel, it was very specifically. You could generate codes. You go onto our website, you click I want to generate a co from my locker. You put that into your actual dress line. Yeah, and so then when an engineer or an engineer be your your delivery man, your Amazon man, comes around and he'll see petty pod one, two, three, four, types it into the this locker box thing outside your door, opens it up, drops the parcel and closes it and it takes a picture off it, off what's in there, and I send you a text Messas saying you're, you know, in parcels, been delivered from Amazon and it's been open and closed at this time. And then if someone comes along, you're you know your son comes along, opens up the box with his code, because we'll have a unique code if you choose to give. You have chosen the given one and decide see like your parcel and takes it. You will say, all right, there has been opened by you know, my case, John Oh, he's taking your your new phone for himself, because that and you'll know that because obviously you got back home and it's been taken. You can see who's open at last and it was your song. So yeah, it's interesting. You know general how that market has now evolved, because with the benefit of hindsight, we can look back and say the B Toc market was just taken by two innovations by Amazon, shameless plug, both of which powered by SIICON activity on global basis. But one is the the Amazon lockers, which aren't outside your front door but are sort of in the not far away, but the bright yellow banks of lockers. Same concept, but but it's actually somewhere you go to drop and drop off, pick up a drop off. And the secondly is the just starting in the US now, but is key for business, where people can actually have access to your if you give them...

...a door or or a gate or a warehouse door or whatever, the Amazon prime driver can can actually get access without you going there to open it when the van turns up. So so Amazon a just completely automating that. So at some point there must have been a pivot. So what did you got acquired by bt? What Year did you get a quiet trying to think now. I think I think it was pleasant seventeen, but I think that's right. The conversation is started in about thousand sixty. Been Yeah, that hope. What you pivoted to be the be the whole field service engineering. was that as a result of the BT acquisition or we you pivoting anyway? I think we were pivoting anyway. And we'd certainly realize how difficult was in the BC market and there was no way we were ever going to be able to contend with with the big players like like Amazon really in that space. You know, you can't very difficult going to that and say hey, I'm taking these guys on. You know, it's yeah, so it quite a level of change and and yeah, we discovered true conversations with people going to, you know, your shows and trying to sell it that. Yeah, same problem exists for for businesses, for for the BDB world with field and particularly to field service engineers, and I know bt at the time where had just started looking at a solution. They were trying to find the solution to their their supply chain problems and they had they've got a huge field engineering for yeah, so they had a a big strategic company with a with their own problem. They were looking for solution anyway. Right, yeah, they were looking for solution anyway. And other large companies like EDF use their supply chain as well. So it's it was a massive problem, a mass cost to their business, and so it was just right timing really. We true, for a lot of these are in completely different business the one they started off in originally. They often don't tell the story, but they something happened, either winning a customer or a competitor, cave in and just says we're screwed here. But actually, you know what, if we sort of turn it, turn it ninety degrees to the left, painted red instead of green, actually we solve a different problem and that's a defendable hill because people aren't looking in that direction, which is exactly what you did. So so, all right, so we got the so what? So what now? It bet final mile being in there since, I guess, for five years, and now it's a pretty well established solution out there. You've got quite a few customers. So that's how many customers have you got and how does it work? To be honest, I have no idea how many customers we got. This just be a new email I get every week. Say Absolutely, name the answer. I did a bit of research and yes, I do, I do do research of the podcast. Guess I believe I'm right and saying that you have about nineteen hundred. So let's called it two Tho. Oh, no, you have they we was sites were yea, there, there. So there are a lot of sites btl, a lot and bit of a foot where. I like to about if you ever hear about you know when you're a big city and they say you're never four feet away from a rat. Well, you're never more than fifteen minutes away from a bt site. Yeah, I'm just glad you're an engineer, not but so we've got your general drift. Yeah, there's a lot of sites we're on. Yeah, we're on probably over over one thou nine hundred sides now and we've got both. It's just over Fivezero and pellypod, the highte well lockers specifically on those sites. So fivezero, all right, yeah, we'll leave the roadents. So we got FIVEZERO and they're being used by multiple companies. So how does... How does it work? Yeah, so it's a really this is beauty of the I have solutions. It's quite simple, certainly for, I guess, for the engineers and for the customers to use. And since you what that, there's a two certain ways they can do it. They can either have pincoade for our engineer and that's their locker that they go to every day, or they can have a onetime use code that works more towards I get. So it's the parcels and actual goods gone at locker. So we talked to the pink code solution. It's one of, the probably the most common ones that they like to use. Is a locker gets assigned to an engineer or a group of Engineers, you know, to a treat them. I share a locker and if the customer wants to say money that way, they can do it that way. And I'm you know, deliveries get put in there by and by also we do deliveries as well, as part of the servers we offer and then most their sorry, I always liked because I always probe on the business model. You just said something. You're about to move on, because I think it's going to come back to where you likely to could go in the future. You not only are installing the lockers and offering the service, but and as a revenue stream to bet, but you are actually offering the logistics. You're becoming a logistics company in itself. You you just said that. You're you're actually offering to put the company, your customer, the company's products into your lockers. Yeah, we do pick up from there their locations and drop it to peny put lockers. We offer that service for them at and the returns as well. We go there and making one becoming. Yeah, shop was a locker. It's now a logistics company. Yeah, it is, and you know, it makes a lot easier for for the customer. They don't have to shop around and do different people for all different parts they're supply chain. They can just come to us and well, will solve the problem for them. So yet where was I? Well, the pink codes. Yeah, you use in the two that's all right, that's right. And most common is the pink code. Pink Code Solution, and that's really light. So if you were individual engineer, you'd have a pink coat, not your locker, and you can always access that locker with that pink code. And until someone says, well, you want to have an access that locker anymore, so that says you. What happens is we drop the goods off and they'll say pick up your goods whenever you want and I I'll you know does go to locker. They know their pink code, be you on a piece of paper someone's given them at some point during an email from from their line manager. Don't access locker every morning, every second morning whenever they need to pick up their guns and drop them off, and we'll have an agreement wor world go out and we'll empty locker every Friday or something like that, so they know that's the day their returns gets picked up. And that solution's quite good. Where they want to have engineer sharing lockers and just have an engineer who just has to remember his one pink code. That's it, you know, it makes a quite simple for them. The other option is doction. I like it to be honest, is this what we call onetime use codes, and essentially that's more signed to the parcel and that goes in there, because what happens is you get the delivery driver come out and he has a unique code. He opens locker, he drops the boxing and closes it and it says that parcel has been dropped off. We know that because the guys used that code and that can trigger an email, a text, phone call, whatever is out to the engineer. That says your personal you know, your smart meter has been dropped off into this locker, this location. Here's your unique code. Go pick it up. Therefore, when they go and they use now their unique code, that is one time muse and open and close it, it will say engineer a has picked up his smart meter at this time, so that you know that in the your smart meter is now tracked in that we in that window,... know, going to tracking of an item and and all of this is, I mean it it's implicit, but we should probably make it explicit. It's it's using cellular obviously. Yep, you guys need a hundred percent coverage, because it's no good if you got ninety percent coverage, of ten percent blockers can't be opened. So you need a sin which gives you the A capability which gives you the maximum connectivity, because you you want to be able to put these lockers will banks of block is actually in any locations. Basis what Amazon s for actually, which is which is presumably one of the reasons why you chose their site. Of the solution it is. And yet these lockers do end up in the strangest locations. I tell you that. You know, we have ones up, you know, beside basically what's a cow shehed up on a hill on the side of Scotland, and they work, you know, and they work perfectly and engineers do go up and used them. And we've got ones in the cities, you know, and you know something that we are at surprised that they do work because they're under, you know, often telephone exchanges, but they still manage to work, you know, five yards from a rat or five yards from a cow. Is, yeah, the working on our what livestocks around? Yes, yeah, but but but the the serious point is that, you know, mobile network operators, as regular listeners to this podcast note, we've never failed to mention it. But you know, we all know that if you put a proprietary Sim in the device. It works great until it doesn't and you can't spop or, if you're a locker, you can't move five yards to the left to get a signal, you know. So you've got to have a basically a hundred percent for every location. Yeah, yes, there are a business case and your brand goes, goes to hell because people's pot can't either open them or they can't retrieve their parcels. Yeah, it'll be, you know, will be. You know, we wouldn't be able to operate if we went to our customers and said you'll be able to open a half the time. You know that that just doesn't work. You know that. You know that the engineers, the businesses need to know that they can go and get into their locker when they need to get into their locker. And because, the end of the day, you know there's a you know, there's a business cost to someone not, you know, being able to deliver their service, and there's a human cost to someone not getting their job done. You know there's engineers will be out driving later than they should win to be at home doing you know, home with the kid. There's a real cost, brandon, and that's one of the things that we found is that when people are looking at the use case for Iot, it's obviously to justify a project to get the budget at allocated. It's often very difficult for people because this concept of a home and ears. Do I get a business outcome return on an IOT project? And of the most common ways of doing it saying, well, if you know, what does every one percent of non connectivity do to Your Business? You know it's cost, time, brand, customer satisfaction, all those that and that's actually where the Roi is from our perspective, because we offer the highest percentage. But but then what people then start doing, and that's where we're going to go now, is they implement one way. Initially. Know your case, you did be the see in any pivoted to be the bego quiet. Then now you scaling be to be. You've gone to different customers, not just bet but EDF so, the power distribution company, other types of customer. See becoming a logistics a sort of a beader be version of Amazon lockers actually. But then now you're also offering becoming a logistics company, to actually put stuff in lockers and take it out again. And then you started going into a very interesting area, which is, you...

...know, starting to get more granularity of data around individual items that are within lockers, and that raises a very interesting possibility which would I'd like to explore a little bit, which is, are you actually a physical product company anymore, or are you becoming an information company in other ways? What you think the potential is here to actually start doing more than just have information about the prop customers products when they're in one location? I mean, these products come out of the lockers and then they move, and so there's tracking possibilities and various things. So what are your thoughts around that area? Yeah, so, you know, yeah, it's logistics and and it's all about things moving, not not there in lockers, and obviously becomes quite important to know where everything's moving at once. So right now we're in very much snapshot mode, you know, as a whole industry. You know, we know it's in a hub, it's in a van, you dropped off and there's all this space making points, but a lot of gap in the there's all the space in between. You know, there's absolutely no feasibility of what's going on. You know, if something happened to the person it's kind of like what it was in the van. But well, we're was the fan was a pact. Okay, we can tell that much. Was the door open. was on the shelf. It was supposed to be on the deep you know, take it off the shelf at any point and put it somewhere he wasn't supposed to. You know, there's all these and you can say that for which everything from ships to planes to in the warehouses. You can, because all and you think about them, sure amount of goods moving around all this time and not, you know, basically all these asts moving around. You want to be able to sort of see it in one go. That's where every single thing is, so you know where everything enter and goes missing, what happens, because it's what it's about. What goes wrong, really, isn't it? You know it's about because we're in things do go wrong, when things do go missing. That's the points that you don't actually see where probably is. It doesn't go missing when he's hanging it to, you know, to the person at that ended line. You know that's not where it goes missing. Goes missing you know, in the fans, when it's in transit and on the ships, on the planes, in the whares is. That's where it goes missing, where you sort of resume orts been stamped in, but it's never been stamped out. So that's it's all about that sort of as track and you can see and sort of grow that further on. So if you could always see where something was for everything, you can start to Redo and rethink how you think supply chainel six work, because you can sort of almost get rid of warehouses and get rid of that's right. You know, all these stock locations and holding stocker and just have it always don amical moving and if you will see wrapped the need, you can redirect it. Yeah, excuse me, you're right. In fact, a lot of the warehouses in a previous life dealt with Amazon before they introduced Amazon prime and Amazon lockers. Just happened to know about them and they had these big distribution centers and then they had smaller ones outside cities, and then they have even smaller ones and I eventually they pushed it right away, final mile, right away the consumer, basically. But they've optimized the supply chain and a lot of these buffering stocks, which can be thirty percent of the total products in the supply chain. A lot of the buffering was because of the inefficiencies in the supply chain. So if you can actually get better visibility, almost real timed, ultimately real time visibility, by then actually you not only get data and visibility, but you actually say, a huge amounts of money because you don't need the buffering stocks and the the the warehouses and you actually get huge savings because you've got supply chain visibility. So it's an enormous prize. How are you going to can you talk about how you might be able to do that?...

Not really good. Yeah, well, I can. I can obviously imagine how how that would work. It will. It would go on to you know, it's assets, you know, packages toats and stuff will have to become smacked to that, you know, these individual unit that you are transport, because right now what they are are just, you know, labels with bar coats on them. It requires someone to scan them and some scan them at the other end that, you know, that doesn't work for acid tracking. You know, that's just a snapshots. What what we need is, I supposed those toads or packages or even items themselves to become diot products. They've and I know there's competitive for competitive reasons. If, even if you do you are planning on going this direction, you're not going to took on my podcast. It's not that you don't know it, never want to talk about it. I don't get that. But but yeah, absolutely, the products themselves have to have a smart label of some sort on them, with form of power and because what you really want is the products to actually say I'm here, I'm here, because you know, a lot of people are tried to solve it just putting a lot of sensors and scanners all around the place, but you've still got all these gaps and, as you said, when they're on a ship or when they're on a plane it's obviously little difficult. System isn't any cellular signal, but with g and what's going to happen on a narrow band, the ability and Mesh Networks, the ability to actually track millions, if not billions of thingss almost all the time, not quite all the time, but almost all the time, is going to revolutionize supply chain. When, when you start getting so let's skip over what solution you might be in printing, but but when you if and when you get this ability to do that. It seems to me that your morphing again as a company into another type of company. You you're becoming a company that WHO has better information about where a customers products are then the customer themselves have information. So therefore you can sell something new called information about where your product upstart. Yeah, that's a that's a pretty exciting prospect for you, isn't it? Yeah, it is. You become almost like a a management consultant to some extent, going in and tell them how to do things, because you end up knowing more about their business to maybe they do, or at least an aspect of it, which should be their supply chain, and coming in and saying, well, if you start doing things differently, you can ye business this way and we can become more efficient. Yeah, you can, let you can. I can see from the way that you're running it to the industry norms for other customers in your vertical. Yeah, you are efficient here, but not efficient here. Therefore, this is the opportunity for you and we can help you. Yeah, yeah, I was that last line is the important one, isn't it? For a price, but yeah, you're sort of you're either becoming like a management consultants or your partnering with Management Consultants or Global System integrators speak. But, but, because you you have the data and we have a we have several customers who are doing that. I've talked about them on the podcast before. So you know brambles, who are in the Chap brand, which are the palettes and containers and Palets, but they have got ten millions of devices, which the blue pellets that you see in Costco, have a battery powered device molded inside the pasty. Yeah, show those battery life management. But they know where the product are within,... know, within Costco. You like another another customer of ours is called in the US customer again called a link labs, and link labs are doing this tracking at a more granular level in the in the sense of you know these plastic containers like a Cardo, they drop your shopping off, yeah, phrase, yeah, yeah, and they get they're the ones that go down the covey belts in the factory. So it's the same and then it gets loaded into a van and then it gets dropped off to the customer. So it's the same product. So if you put a tracker on that, you are getting continuous of visibility. The issue is that people tend to keep those plastic rates because of the quite useful you know, kids toys or just quite useful. So just tracking those it's it's not so much tracking the devices, it's actually tracking the container. So there are a lot of companies trying to do this. I think one of the advantages that you've got is that you've got you've got the customers more directly than other companies. You you've already got the fields feel set field service force using your lockers anyway for their you're already embedded in their job, in their business process. So there's some natural extensions. You've just to go a little bit wider, a little bit sideways and solve a few more of those issues. So it's going to be very instant to watch a progress. It's small, step by step. Yeah, we'll do this next and this to get to this final picture. Away it we are the knowing all being off their supply chain. Really yet yes, there's a praise in the again in the US. Is Not not your grant. This is not your grandfather's Oldsmobile, which but not mean too much people outside the US, but it was oldsmobile was seen as being, you know, really old fashion car and suddenly it was marketed as wow. You know what happened? Transformation. And I only mentioned that because, you know, if you think about the story we just told and then you have to say this is bet that we're talking about. I mean I you know, you wouldn't associate bet, you know, fixed line telecom company. Wouldn't ass wouldn't naturally associate them with supply chain logistics, manage services around product information, supply chain optimization. So it's a very innovative stories to great story of acquiring a startup and and then turning it into a service and then using that service to actually create a whole new set of capabilities away from the core business of the parent company. Yeah, it doesn't ad a telepont writer. Are you know it's not always the Aly on the broad band to the customers house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've made that pocision that we won't use. We don't use WI FI. You know, we could have obviously said quite early on in Pellipard when it was a boxet sions house off will make it a Wi fi, but we didn't even impact in bet. We kept that. Yeah, we're not. Also, is a side glad you made that decision before. Right. I think it works better, doesn't it? It does work better. COPET. You know what happens if you it's like the you know, the Bosh Moss, they always say. People say why didn't? Why does the Bush robutting Mo and not not use wi fi will able to gets more than twenty five foot away from you root it grinds to a hold. But be what happens when you wi fi goes down or you change the password, you then lose your products. Let's it's can't. It's great, it's free, but you can't rely on it, and so cellular is always the one that people use as the full back option. Same for alarm panels. This and this is a really great, great story. It is seems to me that it's something perhaps we could visit even in again in the future, because you are gradually, as I said it, expanding your capabilities across the supply chain, piece by piece, from the field sales force of the customers that you already have, and you've got within bet you've got your own field sales feel service force which is huge. But now with customers like DF...

...for others, you're adding new customers so be insesting to watch your progress in this area, particularly getting down to tracking individual items, which is a huge accuty. Yeah, I'm pretty excited for the future of peaky fire. Male. You know, given a where I started in the company and what was back then and that I started we didn't even have an office. I think my first day was clugg in the cables and to the walls every day, every computers. It to now and and and what we've gotten the feature. So I think in another eight years, you know what will be Definali luck then, you know, I thought. You know, will there be still belockers on site? Probably not a probably be a different sort of company altogether with it. Yeah, wells, yeah, I think we're all will be. I got one final question for me before I let you go. I assume you go. You go home still regularly back to Ireland, and so have you since that day? Have you ever had a phone call again from the airline where you had to race to the airport and in other words, have you had to shake it out a week to get you to the airport? Or those days behind you? There they're well gone. Definitely had flights canceled on me, but not a phone call to tell me before. Yeah, as she said, they days for the airline when the airline customer service was good. That's another problem which still searching for the IOT use case. That solves that one. That's probably more of a financial problem than you could great. It's a really nice story, and I both on a personal level and also from a business point of view. And they added bonus of rats and cows as well, which always makes loo to always entertainment there. Yeah, okay, so, John Oh, thanks very much. Thanks for being my guest this week and for our listeners, you'd be in listening to the IOT leaders podcast with me, host Nichol, the CEO of Si, and I hope you have enjoyed this episode and look forward to bring you another episode shortly with another another very interesting customer. In the meantime, have a great thing. Thank you very much. Thanks for tuning in to iote leaders, a podcast brought to you by SI. Our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, helping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to Iot leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to plot the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening. Until next time,.

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