IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode · 2 months ago

IoT for Health & Social Care: Predictive Analytics & A


Current technology tells us when something has just gone wrong. What if we knew that something was going wrong before it happened, and we could intervene first? 

IoT could turn at-home healthcare technology from a reactive model into a proactive one — saving countless lives and dollars. 

Peter Kerly, Managing Director at Everon, talked with Nick about how artificial intelligence can build a pattern of daily living and then raise an alert when something goes awry, enabling an early response. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Digital solutions in home-based models of care
  • Privacy in healthcare monitoring
  • How IoT can shorten hospital stays and improve home healthcare 
  • Peter's road trip in a van to deliver ventilators to Ukraine   

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to IoT Leaders on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. 

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You're listening to IOTI leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings, the Miss Lessons Learned and innovation strategies that work. In each episode you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. What IOT leaders be your guide to Iot Digital Transformation and innovation? Let's get into the show. So welcome to the IOT leaders podcast with me a host, nickel, CEO of Si, and I'm delighted to be joined this week by Pete Curley, who is the UK managing director of ever on. Now we'll get a lot more into ever on and what they do, but at the top line this is about iote making a difference in the community and particularly around assisted living and bringing the worlds of social care and healthcare together, and it's a very, very good story. It really is something that we can all resonate with and I think you'll really enjoy it. So, Pete, with that intro. Welcome to the IOT leaders podcast. Thank you, nick. Nice to be here, not nice to have the opportunity to speak. Absolutely and and you know, for our listeners subscribers, we were going to record this about three four weeks ago. It was all set up and then we didn't because you gave me a very good reason why you couldn't record. And if you don't mind, maybe we could start there, because you've just done something really wonderful, I think, and it's something which I really admire you for. So maybe you can, because you've been a bit of a trip. I'm new, yes indeed. Yeah, myself and two colleagues, we drove a three and a half time van with aid, medical aid, down to the Ukraine border to support the troops locally and also part of the stock we took down was well hospital ventilators, which was much needed after some of the hospitals being bomb and equipment being destroyed. But yeah, it was a worthwhile trip. It was we worked out we were in the van for fifty four hours together, so we got to know each other extremely well. You, you probably got a little bit more about people than you yeah, we do. Yeah, some good, some bad, but but no or serious as it was, it was a worthwhile trip and we crowdfunded. We raised over eleven and a half thousand pounds, so we financed for trip since and we will probably be financing several trips more over the coming week. So you know, it's the response has been been fantastic. Yeah, such a terrible situation and to do something tangible like that, I think you have everyone's admiration. I know there's ventilators. I'm sure we'll put to use pretty quickly. Weren't they? They they were. Indeed, we got pictures back within twenty four hours and there was a one month old baby on one of those ventilators, which which brings it home and say makes it tangent. So yeah, well done again.

And actually, you know, I guess one of the reasons you did it is that you know health and care in the community and is it the heart of whatever on does? It's what you've done for many years, twenty five years, I believe. So maybe we could start there and just say a little bit about whatever on do and and and your background before we actually get into the IOT put. No, sure, my background is that I've been in health and social care. Is Actually Ver thirty years. Negot but so I'll take the twenty five. It's going to I'm just at a universal self, by the way. So, so and and I started back in the day when social alarms. I probably been. Every will remember a pendent around the neck press dependent calls for help over a landline telephone line. Well, that you know. That model has been around for thirty five years. So I've worked with the market leaders in that and I guess the market attracted me because it was actually making a difference to people's lives. And so I've stayed in the industry because it is a lovely industry, mainly working with public sector to deploy such projects. And the big move for me came two years ago when I when I joined, ever, because they're offering is very different. They're based in Finland with operations in Sweden and the nordics generally a very well respected for their models of care. Yeah, and they've always delivered digital solutions. They've never send an analogs solution since they started in two thousand and I mean they were the leaders, you know, a whole wireless ambial phones, no Keya, so many a gust. I mean they've been at the forefront for upslutely. Yeah, absolutely, and and you know that's it's a very different model. That's been in the UK for a long, long time and it's a model within the UK is very reactive, which means that somebody presses a button or there's a center that picks up and is when something has happened. So, for instance, full detectors, they're picking up before and send it, sending a message when it's too late. You know that person said before, and they end up eight times out of ten within the Secondary Care Arena. So the huge cost to the health authorities, whereas what we're trying to do is deliver a proactive service where we use artificial intelligence to detect lots of visits to the toilet, for instance, where there could be a bladder infection. We can detect somebody leaving a property preset hours where the wear's early set on dementia, so it can raise them a learners so as they leave the property and then the appropriate pathway can be deployed and it detects falls and slumps and it will build, the technology will build a pattern of daily living and any any deviations from that can raise and alert. So it's it's really about, as I say, as I said earlier, developing that proactive service so we can get to people before they become a burden to the health...

...and social care arena. You Know is interesting that on a previous podcast we've talked about another Nordic company set which some of our regular listeners, as they say, will know what I'm about to say, but the world second largest paper company. But they actually come about paper. They make nappies or diapers and and they do the for the you talk about. You and attract infections for care homes. The idea of sensing changes in the chemical constituents of the urine yeah, for residents, and therefore giving alert before the patient actually feels uncomfortable to actually send the doctor to them. So you can anticipate in but that's one very narrow thing, very important thing, because somebody at that age, when they then go into hospital a it can be pretty serious be they can often catch something in hospital or fall out of bout themselves. It has massive implications to billion a year segment the elderly, sort of in continence market, as it's called. But it's a very narrow and but what you you're describing is actually more ambitious and that's the idea of an AI model that tracks personalized behavior and it's sort of a it's almost a more like the security industry, where you do a nominally detection behavior, but it's based on an individual, not a device. It's not like the device is transmitting more data than it should do or the device is sending something to an Ip address. That, yeah, by the way. We we see lots of that. We've had a device that as sending a data to China recently and it didn't say in the speck it sent basis to China and I'm sure that was just a coincidence, but anyway. But you know it's in the security industries around the DEUCE. You you're doing almost like a personalized behavior model of what is the definition of normal behavior for individuals. Well, that's a very good point because you know, the market up until now has been almost a one size fits all. You get this technology and that's it. But you know there are people living within supported housing environments that have very different needs and sometimes they need to get better so their conditions will improve and they don't need so much technology, and sometimes they would deteriorate and very quickly, and that's why our technology is designed to be able to deploy. So what you described with the nappy. We've also got another relationship with a company called accurate that has an electronic mug that detects how much liquid is is is actually taken by the residents, so you can monitor hydration and it's really building a package around the the person rather than just saying this is the technology and this is the solution and that's the what, that that that's the way forward. So it's a you know, our proposition is more service led than technology led. Yes, and it's going to be very bespoke to those individuals. You know, is a sort of a people centric IOT model is not yellow. It's thinking. They almost...

IOP the Internet of people. Yeah, what what some of the other things that we've been talking about in this series or around healthcare, smart healthcare and devices. But you know, you're also aiming for a completely different demographic graphic. If you take something like the Apple Watch or, you know other offerings, they're sort of aim towards, frankly, the healthy people wanting to monitor their fitness or their sign they communicate, they communicate to the phone and then you get all your data or even know, I've got some smart scales. Yeah, right, sure, I overpaid for but anyway I can. I can track my body mass index. I don't know what it means, but I can track it. It's like goes up and down. I've no idea why it goes up and down. It seems to be unrelated to my lifestyle, but it does. But it's it's I'm using it as a healthy person who is just curious. You're actually applying these capabilities to people who actually are not it savvy, they're not it literate. They technology. They didn't grow up. You know technology. They all saying that technology is only technology if you were born before it was invented. So for my kids, or at least anyone born after two thousand and seven, the IPHONE isn't technology because it was always there. Yeah, but this this group of people, I'm sure they're not all towards the end of life, but a lot of them it's technology and they're not natural technology users. So maybe you can talk through how you do it and then from there we'll get into what the benefits are, in particular bringing these two worlds together that you've mentioned social care and you've mentioned health and the Sir Pipes. Yeah, in the years of bureaucracy, almost yeah, the analog digital so fesstival. Let's start with. How do you do that? So we deploy what we term a hub into people's homes and and that is a unit that sits on the wall and it has the capability of placing a call honor system and the residents can speak to the manager of of the the supported housing or it can go through to a control center and they can they can talk to those individuals and respond to their needs and our commissioners will have locally agreed pathways are around that core process. We then have the ability to add for APHERENCE, such as bed sensors, share sensors, for detectors, and you know, if they trigger a call, it's put through the hub, which identifies the root calls and again, the locally agree pathways will take over. What we're now doing is supporting that technology by the use of cameras, polymorphic sensors. So it's so it looks exactly like a camera, but it's and it's monitoring a room or a house and you can monitor specific areas, as doors, areas in the living room where they may for their bed side tables, etc. Etc. And it will and it will detect and build a pattern of active daily living and, as I said...

...earlier, only deviations from that will place a call onto the system. If I can jump in, I'm what you explained polymorphic sensors. I it's not a word I use every day. I'm going to assume that a lot of people don't know what a polymorphic sensor is, but essentially I'm all right that you're sort of anonymizing, you're tracking the thing without recording. The thing is that, is that a good way? Absolutely, in simple terms, that it's converting the image of the resident into a stick person. So it's not filming, there's no there's no recording of what's happening. It's literally just monitoring the movement and converting that into into data, and so there's in terms of any privacy. There's no concerns around that privacy and nobody can go into that camera and it's all very, very secure. So you also were talking about the ability to sort of have a modular approach to add things on bed sensors or sensors kettle switched on. I guess you're earlier example of the drinking enough. You're actually an AI company. It's interesting you know in sort of what sort of company is ever on. I know the segment that you're in a community care broadly, but you're really you're your secret source, your your Ip appears to be this ai software layer model and absolutely, I'm slut. And the ability to then add on partners. I guess people who may be listening to this and say, well, I make a device that does this. I make a device and then this idea of almost like an sdk or an open interface in platform. Yeah, no, absolutely. This market has been criticized for years the fact that it's not open interoperability is a big problem. But now we know we are particularly keen to identify strategic partners that can add value to our proposition. So if there is anybody watching that think there may be an opportunity, will be more than happy to up a discussion. But yet the our platform is open. We have APIS and the ability to push import data, which is absolutely key when you when you want health and social care to work together to you've got a position them to make a more of a health take a home, more of a hit holistic view on personalized care. So for that they need data. They need their there, maybe even their housing data. Definitely. How definitely social care and maybe even medical records as well. So I think in quarter three. This year we're releasing new software that will enhance our helps to take medical devices vital sign monitoring. So, just to give you a flavor, that would be blood sugar, blood oxygen, blood pressure, weight and temperature. So the key, the key indicators to identity define exacerbation of a particular condition. But you know, if... look at the most costly conditions to the NHS, that's COPD, which is chronic obstructive palmary disease. Then you've got chronic heart disease, you've got diabetes and you know, all of those can be monitored remotely with the objective of reducing unplanned admissions into secondary care. So and the more you can, as they say in the old cowboy movies, head it off at the past rather than with it. After absolutely the benefits to the individual are huge, but the benefits for the whole ecosystem and the cost, and you mentioned the NHS and that. But by the way, so if I can do a quick shameless advertorial, of course we bring people on to our podcast who are a member of the SI family. So it is worth saying that we of course were very familiar with you as a customer of ours. Thank you, for being a customer and we helped you with the device and the connectivity and optimizing all of this and bringing your ideas to reality, and it's we are continuing to do as you on this journey. Yeah, I think it's been a very good partnership. You know, we've enjoyed working with you and you know, the key there is that we are the only cellular solution in groups living in the UK and you know cellular in the Nordics, as it's been an accepted needium for many a time. But yeah, it's it's proven very successful for us. So so that's good. And there's a government. Thank you. And there's a government. I mean, frankly, there is a national initiative, isn't it? I mean we have listeners all over the world. It's I gets some varianting emails from and Linkedin requests, lots of inking requests. People say, are listen to you bug as me connect. But it so it's not just UK, but the UK is going through this digital switchover, isn't it? And and that that is actually, I think, being a trigger for your for the opportunity that you face, because we're going from analog to digital anyway, which is a big thing that the government's driving, which then sets these sort of based foundational framework and then you're saying, well, that now we're going to use cellular and not rely, for instance, the Bluetooth to the smart to the smartphone, smart device. Yeah, yeah, as we said earlier in your segment, that's great, but these people won't use it. So there is this national switchover, isn't there? There is open reach and bt have a program of upgrading all of their exchanges. I think the target date is two thousand and twenty five. So there. You know, there are one point eight million user as users of assisted living solutions in the UK. So and the majority of those are on analog solution. So they will have to be upgrade before two thousand and twenty five. Most not all, of them will be hardwired systems. So hardwined systems are so yeah, so the digital switch over, I mean the numbers that you quoted are in allmous. I mean the addressable market is absolutely huge.

Yeah, it is, but it seems to me, seems obvious that. But it's not like an Norman, an ordinary you know, SAS company start up and addressed on market is tens of millions or whatever it is, the fact is that some of the barriers, most it would seem to me, the barriers that you face on adoption are often to do with Pilod bureaucracy, the way public, you know, care in the community works. I mean happen that you know people, you have to connect a lot of people who aren't used to collaborating with each other. Data get sent between each other serially. It might get there, it might not. You're actually describing a new world of sharing and just at the highest level social and health that completely separated. Yeah, they are indeed, and you know the government of wanted them to get closer and you know, get get close where they're actually sharing the tea, coffee of biscuits, and that's never really happened. But certainly I've seen a I've seen I've seen a change, definitely in London, definitely, definitely in Scotland and the bigger authorities like Birmingham, where they are now working together and plan it together and actually sharing some budgets. So I can see I can see that that that changing enormously. Yeah, it's an interesting time. You talk about barriers. I think one of the barriers is that our solution is so far ahead of what has been the traditional model. It's all it's almost, not quite concept selling, but it's almost, you know, an educational process to to to demonstrate what can be achieved by deplying digital solutions, which that and they've never had that before. So so it's really interesting, but it's really enjoyable because you see people sitting there and then suddenly the light bulb switches on and and they really get into it. So say things like so this means that instead of doing this, I gain or I just received. Yeah, Lightbul moment. Absolutely, absolutely. I give you a good example. We've just one. We were very fortunate early on to win a contract with Clarion homes and that's upgrading two hundred supported housing schemes. I think it's a total of six thousand residents over a period of ten years and it's very, very good for us. But they're big. One of them had several driver that their biggest driver was every month they refer to their scheme. Managers live smart managers. That live smart manager had to go round and test, physically test the scheme once a month. So it took a whole day. So immediately by using our technology, because it is digital because it's online and you can see if there's a problem and it alerts them immediately. It's save them two hundred days a month and they could sort of divert that resource to other things. Yeah, and that I'm going to I was Peut. I was going to actually fatally everything. Okay, it's really obvious.

I mean at a even at a personal level, you think, well, this is obvious. Why hasn't it happened so far? I mean it is really obvious and a great use of Iot. But then you think, well, who do you sell it to? Who's got the budget? WHO MAKES THE DECISION? And so in your bringing together different groups, different government departments, councils, young are in the community. So that's not difficult enough. And then you have to say everyone's looking at each other wondering who's going to pay for it. But so finding the Roi, the the Personal Roi with this is really good for the patient, is obvious. But finding the Financial Roi is key, and is that. It was that the key, perhaps in this clarion contract, was to say you needed to show them, but that in this case you saved, you set that process saving that you talked about. They could divert the funds. I mean finding that financial area in terms of they understand must miss be part of Your Business? It is, and yes, that was part of the decision process that the clarion took. But also, I think you know, they are managing a lot. You know that have a huge assets across the whole of the UK from a house in perspective. They're one of the largest housing providers in England. So being able to manage those assets remotely was really key. I think for me, every every local authority has a duty of care and provides technology within supported living environments. The big thing for me, it's talking about our or Roy will be when we deploy ourt telly health as I described earlier. So being able to monitor people in their own homes there by signs. If you think, if think every GP knows what I term as a frequent flyer, so that we will be somebody with, let's suggest, a COPD doesn't manage the condition very well and we'll go into hospital five times a year for maybe up to five, five, six, maybe more nights. So you know an average hospital visit, an average hospital will one thus five hundred pounds. So we know that by monitoring a COPD patient, picking up on an early indicator, which is normally temperature, that seen a slight incline in their temperature. And then you know, we we will have a locally agree pathway with the with the GP. But but just by saying to them take your rescue medicine pack, they'll take that, which you'll be antibiotics and that is the job done. Then nine times, I would oftend, that will be end of the end of that exacerbation. So you know, the real return for me, and we're talking millions, will be within the health arena. You think the COVID has accelerated the understanding of this, and what I mean by that is covid clearly put a lot of pressure on hospitals. Yeah, do free of the beds? Yeah, and so what you're describing is the fact that people never get into the bed in the first place. You know, yeah,...

...need to funs. It's so do you think to some expense, covid as as accelerated the adoption of this different there is absolutely no doubts. You know, it's changed the mindset of the clinical arena, even down to the GP. When did you previously, two years ago, when did you get a remote consultation from a GP. You couldn't my GP. I've talked about this, but the biggest podcast I couldn't and my GP. And I live in a nice part of the world, in an advanced country, UK, but but the my experience of going to a GP was not only did I have to go to the GP, but actually you had to get there. It opened at eight hundred and thirty in the morning. You had to get there about ten past eight to join the queue of people. Yeah, who actually go in and say can I have an appointment please? Yeah, so you stood outside with people who were sick in the winter, it's raining and it doesn't cover. I mean it's good right. Passed to be a line of line of people, you know. Yeah, now in days, an appointment please. Oh, well, is he or she isn't free? I mean I was sit in the waiting room. Will call you. Now it's can I have an appointment? Yeah, the doctor will call you back, or a video and that was all obvious few years ago. Have you know, its pretty completely possible, but goes maybe it happen? Yeah, it did. Absolutely. Another example of the benefits of our technology and the partnership with yourselves. was that when covid broke, you know they they were developing these and deploy its temporary hospitals. Yeah, though, they nhs digital were looking for solutions that could be installed by the nursing stuff. They didn't want engineers in those in those environments potentially bringing in infection, and so we ended up in stalling into seven emporary hospitals across Hampshire and Dorset because it was senular base, because it just plugs into the to the mains. So we had the kit delivered, we had an engineer sitting outside in the van and the nursing staff were installing all of the units, all of the hubs in each room and deploying the pendance to the patients. So we could see the units coming online and then we could also see if if there was only issues with with coming online for some of the units. But it worked really, really well and you know, they were deprived for six months. They were used as temporary bed space to get people out of hospital for they went home. And what that has done is raised out profile within a nhs Di's just and where now run in a couple of other projects with them on the similar basis. So you know, it's amazing how covid has suddenly push things forward, I would say it for you know, something that would normally take another five to ten years and maybe more. Yeah, it's in. It's suddenly left forward and we're not going to go back with we have another clients similar INA,...

...and at some point, you guys have no doubt we partnering a in the US. What's the different system? In the US you have the clinics in the hospitals, which are profit centers in their own right, but they are the first people to create you talk about cellular, cellular connected medical grade devices. So the way they do it is called telly health. Also of another company called a q health, but the they've created the world's first cellular enabled instruments, so like an SPO to a blood blood pressure and whatever. And so the idea is that you may be in a hospital bed for a day or two and then you go home and they say go to Walmart or wool Greens or whatever, CBS, I ask them for this box and in certain get inside a box or six medical instruments that you normally only find in a hospital and instructions and when you switch it on and and they connect cellular now in their case, they they go to telly health and again it's as similar AI engine, which gives the data to the clinicians of the condition can make ser decisions on it. But in both cases yourselves in their selves, what they need is ubiquitous, ie out of the box, single button press, one hundred percent connectivity. Absolutely all of these things have been great in theory. Is My second little abatorial some of these have been great theory, but if you're getting ninety two percent connectivity in your field, that's eight percent of people that you can't monitor. The implications if you're selling coffee of the TAP, percent cups, a percent of your cups of coffee, if you're monitoring people or there's a much bigger implication. So, John, both cases the idea of you know what, we offer, a hundred percent global connectivity from a single sin, is really important, because you don't want to worry about that, do you? You just want it. Absolutely not. Yeah, no, absolutely not. It's rot to be and it works and and modellly described in America, is definitely the way we have to move in the Ukny definitely go that way. I think it's it'll take time but you're actually one of the disruptors, so to speak. Let's try and bring it to a conclusion. It's a very exciting area. POLYMORPHIC sensors, Internet, people monitoring things, bringing health and social care together, predicting a nominee, detection behavior applied to elderly people. Sure, very exciting. Any over and above rolling out out your current solution to more locations homes, is the big push for you guys. Now sort of this platform thing we talked about right at the beginning, the idea of there's a whole world of ecosystem partner as a whole world of people. I mean we see them. Yeah, it's in not thousands of companies that make products that you know. They we could measure everything. You know how often you, as I said, put the kettle on, but you talk about drinking, opening the fridge. I mean there's no shortage of things that can measure behavior, and wearable devices as well. So is is that you're a sort of strategy, is to have a sort of open platform with with a to allow people to plug in on top or any...

...fair enable them to create a recurring revenue stream on top of your platform. And you absolutely home. You win the home, you have the platform and then they can clip onto it and create a recurring something like the iphone in the APPS. Yeah, yeah, no, sure, yeah, interesting living space. That's a good analogy. You know, that's think that's exactly it. But I think the other big driver for me is, you know, because the of the reactive server, that the reactive model that we have there all the service, the services that are delivered by, I think as a hundred and forty five control centers around the UK, some privately owned, some run by local authorities. They have staff sitting there waiting for a call to come in. Because what the when someone's for and they press the pain yeah, he helping comes in. Yeah, what we've got? What up? What my one of my big objectives is is to change that model to be, for we re absolutely active. Yeah, definitely, and analyzing data rather than just waiting for a phone call to say Pete's fallen, looking at data, predictive data, and then providing interventions appropriate at a time before it becomes an issue. And the other thing we've got to do as a business is, I think I touched on it earlier, is that the people suddenly their conditions suddenly to tiorate. So we have to be agile as a business to be able to deploy the appropriate censer or technology or service to meet that that that need. And and we've got to be able to say to our bioplop your resident is now not need in that tell technology we can take it back, that I have it on a rental basis rather than forcing them to buy it and, you know, take the barriers away and and move it around. Yeah, and as possibilities and a great story. What it's real use case, but a great human the human level of great story is one we can all relate to. I mean, you know, we all were all getting older and and and we and health issues and relatives and it's really the promise of Iot that to make a change in people's lives, yeah, for the better. And communities. And just a final point. You mentioned the UK. Of course, the demand for this in outside of Western countries is also here. We do a huge about in Africa, as I think you know. We will fresh water and light and whatever to millions of people in Africa using iote and helping design solutions for that. But but the healthcare arena, you're starting from a much further point back. Any final thoughts on global applicability? I know you're focusing on the UK right now and took about Nordic parent company Ordia. Really there really talking about changing the world? The ability to allow emerging countries to leap frog who would seemed to be an unbelievable prize. So the big prize would be if we could apply this to third world emerging market. Seems to be like the huge prize. And and so it's...

...not just a Western country opportunity, is it? No, not at all. It's a worldwide model and you know everyone group is ambitious. Obviously the UK as an immediate objective to meet the need of the upgrade for the digital platform. But yes, I I think group wide will be planning to look to deploy elsewhere. Right it's anymore family anymore trips planned in the van with your buddies? Yeah, I think we'll be going down a couple of weeks for another one over a weekend. So yeah, I mean we've hooked up with a local charity in it's the Canterbury and Ashford Kent Ukraine appeal, run by a young Ukrainian lady who does all the logistics. We just provide the resource in the finance to to get the the a down there. So it's a it's a good match and it's nice to see the results of the hard work for anyone listeners if they wanted to help you financially just to so you can deliver a few more ventilators or do a few more trips in the van. But the boys in the van, if it I was or whatever it was, he said, somewhere they could just a website they can go to just to contribute. There is a just giving page and it's a it's a Ukraine of peel and I think you know the amazing thing is that we asked for two and a half hour, two and a half thousand pounds. Initially we just wanted to do the one trip and we've raised eleven and a half. It's fantastic. So you know it's all go into a good cause. But yes, it just give him pay age. I think I think it's called I. I didn't Risee. You're gonna ask me. So you've called me on the hop I believe it's the Pete John and cly the peal the Ukraine road trip. So I'm sure people will find it sounds like a film script, Pete John and Clive just givingcom Ukraine appeal. I'm sure there's enough information there for our there is no little find exactly audience to find in the really talk about making a living in people's lives, not through technology in this case, but actually just through basic humanitarian caring, and it's a wonderful thing. So well done again. I think we're going to leave it there. It's been very, very interesting. I'm I suspect you might be a repeat guest because I think future there's so much potential for this one. As I said, I think there's a so many different partners who can say well, if you've solved that problem, can I clip onto it? And you know, they build the ecosystem on top, which is what this is all about. So thank you for joining me. Thank you to our listeners. As you know, this has been the IOT leaders podcast. If you want to do get in touch with me. I don't have a the just giving page, but you can actually find me on Linkedin, Nick Nickel, and you can send me messages and suggestions, as many of you are doing. But in the meantime, thank you to my guests. Peak Kurlie, who runs ever on in the UK such a really great story about how it is making a difference in people's lives and, indeed, what it could do going forward, not just in the UK but globally. So, with that, thank you for listening. I look phots talking to you. Thank you. It's...

...been it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to iote leaders, a podcast brought to you by Si our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, helping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to iote leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to plot the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening. Until next time,.

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