IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode 0 · 8 months ago

Taking the Platform Global w/ TELUS Partnership


When you’re evaluating a partner (or ecosystem), you want to look for one that’s frictionless and trustworthy.

The future of global telco is going to be based in ecosystems, not individual companies, and it will be built on a trust model.

Ibrahim Gedeon, CTO at TELUS, talked with Nick about widening partnerships to include ecosystems — and the unique way that operators can help make that transition to the trust model.

Join us as we discuss:

  • TELUS Global Connect and Eseye’s partnership
  • New ways to conceptualize independence and disruption
  • The role of eSIM in frictionless touchpoints
  • Hyperscalers, operators, and the trust model for building ecosystems 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to IoT Leaders on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.

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You're listening to Iot leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings the Mrs Lessons Learned in Innovation Strategies that work. In each episode, you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. Let iot leaders be your guide to Iot, digital transformation and innovation. Let's get into the show. Hi, this is Nicol and welcome to this episode of Iot leaders. I think you're really going to enjoy this one. I'm we're talking to this Cteo of tell us, tell US corporation of Canada, the large Canadian Mobile Network operator. Braheen getting on now. Bream has a lot of vary instinct views and some great ways of describing them. It's actually quite amusing the conversation that you're about to hear. But he also is a real visionary. From our perspective. Tell us for the first company that we partnered with to take our platform and take it global. They now have something called tell usclobal connect. You'll hear about that, and it sits above photophones platform. It's it's about CIRAS platform. It's it's above I think to Jasper platforms that they have. But, but, but he doesn't really talk about that. He talks about why they did it. But then took about his vision as to where the market needs to go and get into some very interesting material at the end where he talks about the difference between the hyperscalers and the operators and how the operators, although they may seem as if you know they're the guys who perhaps are all all fashioned and won't be able to make change that's needed, actually what assets they've got which actually could be really incredible in this future world, particularly around trust and trust from an end user point of view. But only if the operators work together collaboratively. So I think you're really going to enjoy this. So let me hand you over now to my chat with Braham getting on, the CTEO of tell us. So, Brahim, welcome to the ITT leaders podcast. Now I have to say for our listeners a couple of things. First of all, who is Brehim and why am I talking to him? So Bringham, bring him. Getting on. Is the CTEO of tell us, the Canadian operator. I call them Canadian but actually, as you'll hear in this podcast, tell us is actually a global corporation and doing a lot of very interesting things. So we're going to get into that, but it but first of all for him, welcome. Welcome to the ITV this podcast. Thank you. That excited being here and chatting with you. Great and that background that you've got, for those of you are watching the video, looks really nice. Is that somewhere in Canada? Is that photograph? It is our for British Columbia. It's a small it's a small area that we use the profits from the sale of some of our real estate to build and provide a haven for children that either traveled at home or need extra support. And this is from one of our engineers that provided coverage to that remote area. So it's part of our social purpose. So we use the profits from real estate to start the TALUS feature friendly foundations or how cool is that? Well, that's great. I didn't know that and I'm but I asked you about it. So that's great. So, and one of the reasons that we're talking about in the fact I think you have some very interesting views about Iot, where it is, where it's going to go and the value. But before we unpack that, like to start because we already have corporate relationship between Si and tell us. And you know tell us, where the first company, the white labels, has white labeled our platform and you're... in market and I know you've got some great prospects which, of course, we can't mention, but you've created a global you've launched a global capability under the brand named TGC, or tell us global connect. So I just wanted to pop start off there by saying, could you share the extent that you can, could you share the motivation behind doing that, because I know that you had Jasper Platform, Sierra Wireless Platform, I vote phone platform. I think you had using at least three platforms and then you did this sort of overlay with great TGC, and you share a little bit what your motivation was for giving we nick. If you don't mind, I'd like to go a bit back for the folks watching the podcast. We partnering with Si because as a there's a similarity or convergence of destiny on what the end user should do. So so I don't be flowering, I'm a Geek, so I'll be very the partnership with Si had us at frictionals. So so one of the biggest challengers that I think the industry has had is there's always these ecosystems that are very heavy and actually impact going to market. One to impact how a customers on border and three of the global reach is not using next GM technology. And I think a lot of it comes from protecting your existing revenue. So as a business person yourself and myself, you either use legacy as a launch faan to the new stuff or as a vote anchor. And we felt in the IOT space we have a lot of great partners, as you mentioned some of them, but a lot of it was hinged on minutes and bites, which defeats where the world's going. And then if you look at the fact that tell us his vision as a futurest friendly, and there is technical meaning behind that marketing term. Si is all about frictionals. That was the right partner to build an umbrella because you really need to put the ecosystem so when you say you white label, I don't think exception. But we didn't white label, we actually partnered on on board it. So we through our assets under the SI umbrella and we hope more of our peers as they come on board, because it will only be richer when there's more players in that playground. Right. So the intent is not to be exclusive, is to be inclusive under the SI umbrella, and there are technical nuances. It does mean that you need to go to market in a very different way than most people see it today. But, like to be honest, roaming is this avering. You cannot consider what we're doing with SI and Iot as roaming closally, which is the kiss of that. So for my peers who were thinking of Iot as, I have that roaming revenue or that the daughter thirty seven, we have to think of it differently. You need that platform. That will be the umbrella platform where people can come in integrate and we have to think of the actual end user. I know it's not what wholesale or partner solutions team think, which two most of these arements, but I think our team is a bit unique and we work very closely with them. You know, and I thank you for correcting me, you've even expanded what I sid does. So you're describing what we do better than I describe. To See what we do, I is insting. You talk about putting your assets underneath s I i. I talked about in the intro. There that you're bidding on some very big deals that, frankly, are, you know, truly global. You're offering a truly global solution and that could well mean that the connections, rather than roaming, could get localized onto other MNOS that perhaps you might may or may not have rowning agreement space, but but they could localize onto them. And so this is this sort of agnostic approach, doing the right thing for the user as opposed to up to the profitability from interrupt sort of interrupt you. But you hit the nail on the head. Why... I need to own the user and to end as long as I have the user for a number of services and I want their convenience right, so there's stickiness and convenience, which is what we're trying to do. It tell us global connect among other things. Right, like I don't need to to ingest everything from tell us. You are to tell a subscriber thank you for what you're doing and then, but I have to think of when you're traveling or when you're on boarding with a different platform. We've made our money based on certain things, right, so we need to think of what is the best thing for you. And thus it is we need to be members or partners with ecosystems, nick bluntly putting it, that provide you with the biggest range of connectivity, the biggest range of Apis, and we need to think beyond mobility, connectivity through EASOM and and legacy. Sound right exactly. And and we talked, I've talked in some of the recent PODCASTS, about how people don't realize the fundamental disruption that e Sim is is driving. I mean for a lot. I mean one thing we know is a whole raison debtor is. Yes, you mentioned simplified, but it's also to demistify Iot because it's massively complex. And we talked about ourselves being the guide, which is why there's an umbrella behind my head, not a lake, the idea of guiding somebody on a journey. But but for a lot of people that we speak to, they say o e Sim, there's this basic confusion. You know it. Does that mean electronic? Does that mean embedded? But it's something much more more fundamental, because it's intended to phone back there. It's the fact that alonger tied to an operator and so use a choice is now being given that the users or the device and in many cake increasingly the user says no, I have an agnostic capability, not a proprietary capability, which is fundamentally disruptive to a model that we've known for forty years. Yeah, likes already. I got me excited, so I was going to jump in. No, that's the idea of the podcast. Feel free to get excited. As I said, I'm a Geek, so I'm after marketing worthy, but I love to share my view, specially when we're working with you guys. I think people miss the bullet because Esin is not the next jot set. It actually really fines not just the independence of the freedom of the client has, but think of the old days where we used to have to insert hardware and adds are early on hard or. Now it's with joined the twenty one century, for the love of God, like what we're able to actually manipulate those parameters. So two things. One you got talked about as independence, and yes, it does give you independence, but it's not so much independence from your operator. It's the independence the ability to do way more with your current device then you would in the old days because it's tied to a walled garden. And the other part where people I believe it's in the snow where they say, Oh, what's he said? And it's just another SIM is, because if you don't invest in the next Gent Stack, and I'm talking about OSS BSS, then you're building as highscraper in ventice. You have a thirty forty year old but you do you have a thirty forty year old legacy system that's so used. Two minutes and Bites and picking the roaming partner. Yeah, and you add on an easy and it will have the same behavior. You are true. It is like when people they miss built five g. So you know it's so easy to do to G with five g. You just do nothing. Yeah, you you leverage to old technology. I think it's critical to take eason and that's why we're excited about the work with you guys. It's a take a sim and think of it as a disruption, not just in the technology of implementing authentication and verification. You have to take of eat, the Easton as a vehicle that enables other services and what adds on, and then you have to think of the ecosystem. I'm not being negative. No is gonna get fired to give fire G that looks... for g that's what most of the tucals it was a nuclear war mine. Is Bigger Than Union. There was no devices. I remember around the world like who's five gees bigger, and I think it behooves us to do the like. To look at people like Si and I see only Si. Not that you don't have competitors, but I love the DNA and the edulity of being able to get together and say, okay, well, he's some redefines how people ingest and consume operative services and third party services. That's critical. What does that mean? Yeah, you know. By the way, I have no problems you mentioning Ausid but but yes, other other NBAOS are available, as they say. You know, we both have been in the industry a lot of years and one of the lessons that I learned having worked in the multiple countries is that it's too fundamental ways. Always are looking at things from the inside out of the aside in. And when you do look inside out, and you know, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, you just do very slight increments to what you're doing and you think that you're making significant progress. But actually when you look outside in and you look at what people actually want to do and the potential for Iot. To your point, it is so big that, if you take it narrow Croqui'll view perhaps because you're trying to protect a PNL or a legacy business model, which is the primary reason why people don't embrace change in my view, because it disrupts a business model, it disrupts when people are paid and remunerated. But actually, when you do achieve the lead frog and say you who, I actually am going to embrace this. So I know it's different to what I did previously, but actually gives more use a choice. That's when you jump forward and and then you make progress. And I mentioned the fact that in the intro. You guys are global. One of the things that was attracted to us in the partnership is your tell us, international business, because I didn't realize, I must admit, how big that is. A IT'S A it's a big I think it did its own it floating different on the stock market. We maintained, I think, approximately sixty percent of ownership, as tell us right, it did very well. Like it's ten billion dollars of valuation, which was more than most felcos run the world is all right, but it is it is a it's a very interesting offer, right, like it's not just it outsource. Think it is a full service, leveraging that tell us experience, but with massive partnerships with the likes of Google and others, and points are presence all around the world. So so it grew from personalized care. So if you think of when I said we should partner with we should, we would have parkening with a side just because you said frictionals. So we're talking about the future as friendly and where we're heading. But also it do fails nicely into everything is global. Now it's up to you whether you choose to make it so or not. Like there's no such thing, and not just with covid with connectivity. You can build something and a basement and the UK, well, you guys won't have basements. But I basically man Canada. There's no reason why somebody in London can consume it. So, that being the case, if it's the best product, what are the impediments? And then you start thinking of mobile networks, because everybody is connected or tethered in a wireless fashion. How do we make sure that that happens? And, like Hesum to me as a wonderful progression on devices and connecting devices and that connectivity. But from corporate point of view, were massively invested in health, agriculture and the work with it would tell us some rational soul. You're right, like if you look at the bulk of much of the revenues, but the bulk of emphasis and investment. If you take a broad band off which all operators are doing to make sure there's proper broadband be adquired or wireless, it is these verticals that we think are truly global and there's some centers of excellence that can publish globally. They and it's a blend in the value of I mean, I mean, and it's most...

...simple form the moment you have a cloud based virtualize capability. It is inherently global. So not from a global world when we don't come, we SI come from a global world in the word cloud native and for us a geographic boarder is. Well, it might make a difference in terms of the currency on the invoice, but that's all I can really think. It makes a difference. However, the components from as we talked about it, from the operated point of view that have all of these incredible all assets have. I've come from a geographic model, typically three operators per country. Sometimes you see for the regulator is per country, license spectrum, you buy it per country. So we're going from a model. I think this comes back to the first thing that you said, which was was always built up with geography as the sort of the moat, the protective moat or whatever. It was a geography model, to a world where suddenly now with with seamless everything, not just seamless connectivity, but seamless billing, seamless apis, seamless capabilities, the data network based infrastructure that the distribute data across the book Global Data Center Capability With with data that can be back hold but it can also be processed locally at the edge. And as the data goes to the edge, it becomes a boarderless architecture which is global, digital and therefore much, much more scalable. And that, as you say, I know we're working with multiple parts of tell us, but tell us architech. Again, I can't talk about the project, but we're doing we're doing work with them around animals, let's say, on the ARTEC side, where we're not just talking about sellier and know we're talking about short wave type se so you are like to me, this is like it is very critical because is you cannot protect at technology. You need to protect the services of the customers you want to serve. So so when you think of it that way, we're a hundred percent with you. So, so one thing I didn't mention when we talked about tell us ag and tell us health and there is a pro for a carrier, if they do it right, to open up the Canadian market to the globe through people coming in, but also the same time there's some unique Canadian requirements and Canadian services can go to the world. And how how are we part of it? Not Just because you have your tells device and tell seen. That is why the ecosystem, that's why the APIS, that's why they work with you guys. Like the more successful as high is, the more successful tell us is and the happier and the more enriched my clients are. And that way, if they're happy and they got unique services, I'll never leave. Like, at the end of the day, we both need to make money. It's not everything can be term reduction, but there's a convenience piece that people have. Like I look at today with Covid. I have we're on zoom now, I have teens, I have Webex. Yeah, I have the Google meet, yeah, the man, some bunch of friends and varizones. Why? I'm I think jeans, blue jeans. They yeah, so. But if you look at it, you know what I think. I'm comfortable paying five bucks a month or one button I click on that talks all these sex and people have to think of a SI that way. The convenience of not thinking, yeah, it is so beautiful, because I need to go say, AH, well, don't have a roaming agreement in Nigeria. I'm not really sure. Let's go check. It's a process and you're right, I cannot sell us do a I have to do an operator or I go through Silliverse, for example, which is the legacy version of what Si does. And they're great friends. I don't Miss Understand when we love them for many other reasons, and TATA Communications. But I think it's got to be to the world where I don't actually care. I'm going to trust that...

...the ecosystem is big enough of working right. So I think one of the questions that are view of social listeness. People do both would probably ask at this point is let's play devil's advocate or just ask the question. You know, isn't this what the hyperscale is are going to do? I mean people say yeah, but I get that. I get it has to be seenless. I get it has to be frictional ass I guess it that I get it. I guess it has to be bottless. I want low price and I want choice and I want applications. And they say, isn't this world's the looks a lot like what the hyperscalic hyperscops. A hundred percent it does. It doesn't mean the hyperspillers of the best people to deliver because, whether we like it, at the end of the day the operator is giving you the two things. We had wired connection and you go wireless inside the house or your mobile connection, and that Infrastructure Investment has to be leveraged through myself for one of my peers globally. So there's a role for us to play. That's like the fact that they play a role which writes on top and doesn't have any consideration. It's something we should learn from. If that's what our clients want versus that's what they provide. Yes, they do, but at the end of the day you are going to write on the southern network. There's a local piece that they can never get. So, for example, I don't know the local power company is in London, but we have it, we have a choice. But there is actually, you know what my mind is EDF, which is everyone thinks he's a British company, but it's actually electric State de France. So might let my vocal. My local power company is friends. So it's it's the excuse me, will in Canadas, but not too yeah, sorry, I should have but nick. So if you look at your power utility and they may be big enough, but a lot of these partnership for the hypers killers, they actually do not want to be local. This is the beautiful thing about the operator. I'd like to have the local touch. If something goes wrong, Google cannot send somebody to your house, or Amazon I can. So so I think there's a great role for us to play. The fact that they do certain things well does not mean my job is to say, Oh, I'm not going to implement. Actually, no, I'm going to replicate. I mean you look at a fun I did. Best Practices do fail them and the question is what is my role and that's the rule that I think is very critical and to remain for operators. Yeah, and that is our view. Our view is that you guys will always be there, I mean because of the assets that you have and you build them up over forty, fifty years and those assets are always needed. If you can take the ease of use, to the friction, the choice, the global capabilities and apply then to the assets, particularly if multiple operators can do it at the same time, you arguably create a one plus bony calls three situation because you got the best of both worlds. You learn from the ease of use, speed, the choice, everything that the hyperscalers of God, but you're leveraging the frankly trillion dollar plus bassets that's in the ground, that's piped into everybody's house, into everybody's business, that you need, the tower infrastructure, the compress the peas. So it's so it's really a change management transition that we're seeing in the industry here, and I think he's Sam is the trigger that's and some earlier doctors, such as yourself and some others, were coming down the pipe there there. This is the trigger for the best of the the lessons that we've learned, and we learn them, by the way, in cloud. They're not new to Iot. This was this happened in data centers and applications. We learn...

...them in cloud. Now the chances to take those lessons and apply them to the operator capabilities and then you have the best of both worlds for the customer down and then just circles off on this point. That's what he sends all about. You're actually gone away from physical boundaries, which is what cloud or network function virtualization does in theory. And actually, yeah, yeah, I mean I mean you, you, I mean you need not that tell us a special I think we are special, of course, but we have such a closely knit executive team and a bunch of actually people that work and we foster what I call high technical Equ so, Nick, what you're talking about is connect the dots. Make sure you're ERV guys. Talk to your cloud guys, talk to your wholesale guys, talk to your some guys, talk to your core guys and, as long as they're smart people talking everywhere, they see exactly what you're seeing. But we need to use every disruption as an opportunity to make customers happier and, of course, increase top line and reduce costs. Yeah, I think the NFE and now cheese is a good one. I just want to switch somebjects. Might last come a question on this, I promise. But as pot regular podcast listeners will know, I was thirteen years in Cisco and when NFV AND SDN so, network function virtualization software define networking, came and it was like, Whoa, this is a threat. You'll need less boxes. If you can actually put the great a dynamic, flexible, event driven network caseaulity with a software overlay on top of physical assets. Is that an opportunity or a threat? But actually, you take a company why view and in terms of what the market opportunity is, it's an incredible opportunity. But if you take a view of know my job is to sell more boxes, it's a threat. And and so that. And the same with NF, especially NFE, to the edge containers, because the applications are going into containers like Dr and Couberetti's. Are they going to the edge? So the everything is what I mean by network level orchestration. Everything has to be virtualized and extended to the edge, beyond the hyper scale it isn't just a hyperscale world at any it's a behind the fire wall. It's a hyperscale and now it's going to be an Iot edge, and the IOT edge will in many, most cases go through the operators. So absolutely the opportunity here is to is to connect the whole thing. hyperscalers will do the Middle Ring, if you like, but the edge is a different issue, particularly when you look at what's happening. So so I think there's a tremendous amount we can do. I don't want to duck this to donate, podass, I do want to move on to another area, because you and I can we took brows. No, but as you're preparing your notes for the second question, I think people also forget that. I am in Italy and I found this cool lap. Why? The price point is of that easy and capable? I bring it home. It should be Freakin touchless, like it's to tell us strip this car heard, you come to your mind, you come to your house, you put it. Tell us should discovered. Tell us should have a launch pad saying or you've added another device rather than all you need to activate. You neither rate plan, and this is the part that I think, when you think of connected what we need to learn and also actually implement as operators for these subscribers. Sorry that I interrupted. You know it's well know. It is a bridge. There are certain consumer devices, of course, where I think you could argue the pretty close to that are. There are some devices, I mean the kindle is a good one. You know, I take my kindle I go on holiday Italy or the Beautiful Lake in their British Columbia. I know that part of the world. A daughter went to universe UBC and and you know, it just kind of works. I don't really think about it. I tell it on it knows who I am, it connects and and I know it uses a technology calls MDP plus in terms of being able to do that. But that is the exception, not the norm, because if you take iota, as... said, most devices don't work like that. If you take it from country at country be there's a like an eighty percent chance hit won't work. And and even if it can see a network, sometimes it's you know, Ike land on an airplane airport that you've got a network but you can't get your data. People say why I got I get my data. It doesn't work like that. So I think that we're heading into that area where devices are much more smart, intelligent, they are multi not just cellular. But we are with they'll be, I was going to say sick folks, but but I can't say that now because they've gone, gone now, fortunately. But you will have Laura, you have Bluetooth, you'll have lower satellites and so if you and it will sun be it all. And today we talked about them in acronyms, but in the future it's just, you know, the perfect technology is when it when it becomes invisible. Whoever it was that said that first you know to technology is become invisible when you don't think about it. has become a mainstream when you don't think about it, and it's become invisible. And I guess our view is that that's the way it's going to go, is that we're not going to talk about it in silos in the future. It's just going to be capability and you can have the choice as a user and don't whoever you are in the ecosystem. You can have this choice, which will simplify the industry and reduce the number of place I think reduce the number of playing in terms of friction like inters. What if the number of players needed to put the sociate. I meant that. Yes, reduce the number of players. I didn't and I wasn't referring to the operators, but reduce the number of twenty piece beast like. I mean you can. You can't afford to activate a things. So your lamp works or your friends or yeah, yeah, and I think this is long as we do some work. I kind of give you the project name because it will give it away. But but it's basically that sighs part of it. But it's what we cause them to a. It follow it's the bet extas right, and the end somebody. There's a consumer. Yes, and we tend to take the value chain and put B to be dos a relationship. Then B Thev to be as a relationship to see. I think what we want to meet and make sure the CE can just the service, because you want to stop the multiple agreements. Think of the burden right to have all these agreements. That's why you join an SI or an aggregated global M O, right. So you need to reduce that, but also needs to adapt to what they need locally. Right, like do I see my power utility or do I need their APP? Like, how many apps are you going to have in the end? You want that aggregated, you right. So if we want to make everybody's life easy, we actually partner with platforms set aggregate the services they need. Right, which is our plan, because it will happen. So, so either we write the wave or it will crash into US and every year will be bitching and complaining. Oh my God, we lost ten more percent revenue. What are we going to do about it? Please, getting reprised if you're not increasing your top mine else work. The current services are dying. I mean you talk about enery. I remember as Dun. We were the first to launch as Dun. They said you're repricing her MPLS business. Brain. I said, the market will reprice my MPs business, but I better have a solution. That's next gender customer would resonate with. So we were the first in the world to launch managed as the answervices. Right. So maybe it's our DNA, but that's why put the bulk of the work. Like Liak, the reason we're here is because we're partner. That is why we believe, as I have the technical fortitude and the bridge to look at next gender way should be looked at, and let's I was going to go into. I mean, I think, by the way, as a comment, the ultimate success of the case studies that we see two and a half thousand, three thousand, now whatever that we see. What are the common attributes? Is that a disintermediation of the value chain,... it less steps in the value chain because you you're actually delivering direct to the sea, the enterprise being a coffee machine or a smart meter or whatever, and you actually you the the casualty, so to speak, are the intermediaries who really add cost and complexity to the process. And when you actually go direct to the consumer and he turn a product into an experience, what happens is that you get more loyalty, but you actually need less people in the chain. And that's that was the disintermediation that I'm referring to, but that's another subject for another day. No, but sorry on that point, but that's a critical point. That be because, I tell you, one of the kisses of depth is when you hand people next Gen way of doing work, they work their job description into that that you change was so so so in a simple way because, as we said, I'm a technologists working with with what the work we're doing with you guys on the reason where aligned visional wise, is you're creating a hub. So instead of having these serial agreements that are back ended, you're coming to a common chord to agree. Thus, from a consumer point of view, we may have the most complex agreement, whether bet or vote for like. They're all partners, but from a customer point of you they don't see that it's a one stop shop, it's a onehop. So I think that's the beauty of what we need to do and enable and have the Ott hyperskillers achieved it, yes, because they don't care, but they don't activate as much as we do. They don't know where you live. Like the level of trust. We've seen all the ways of facebook, and I wish them well on privacy. Like you, you might hate your Talco, but you trust them to death with your credit card, with your location, with Evers and it is about trust. And, as you say, the ways comes, the way you can pick a phone up and somebody will answer and actually they came. They do come to your house and that is important at the end of the day, let's move it up a bit just towards get towards the end of the podcast. Let's talk about about data and once we create this seamless aggregation, this this central hub, one of the things about Iot is that it turns a device into an experience and data, information and insight about how things are being used is more valuable than the thing itself. So this is a you know, an Kapex into opics. It becomes a val it's the disintegration of brands because you you can actually be a new entrant and and actually create a brand new experience. We've seen that Netflix, for example, multiple areas. So so the the ability to actually create, to be very specific, new managed services from Apis the ability to have artificial intelligence and machine learning and create. Once you've done this, it seems like it's a prerequisite to do something really exciting, which is a whole new range of services that people have never even thought about before because you have all the data in one place. So first on the start off, by it's very critical that we maintain at least Canadian and international areas where our privacy and trust assessment, because it's all about trust and the challenge with data for example, I used to drive a BMW. It's not my favorite card work, but that's not part of the podcast. There are wonderful people, but but it'll be nice, if you like. Let's see a certain brand of car and I know you like them, that the adds that pertain to that car are the ones that you see right. So, so there's a comedience piece doesn't intrude on your privacy. It could be done an anonymized fashion to leverage. So I'm with you that it's the day. The data is where one plus one as three and and unlike certain companies, we don't give them for our benefit, it's for the end benefit of the kids humor. So I think there is a massive rule for the operators where they don't maintain the data for themselves. They actually maintain it to support...

...that. Be The be, the be, the be, whatever it is want to and they're not trying to monetize the consumer. Essentially, yes, I'm not trying to monetize the consumer. I'm actually trying to enable the value chaine to be better. So instead of sending commercials on Saddles, well, in the place where there's no horses, that doesn't make sense. If we're able to identify it that this probably is pretty a feeling to have commercials on next Gen Saddles or whatever they are. So you're right about that. I think the trust issue is something we, as cell goals need to align. So there's lots of work with the GSFA and the United Nations on data trust and have to cal AI. But that is the true opportunity. Is Not monetizing the data, and I think that's what's happening with some businesses. It's all I have. Data must be valuable. Okay, guys, but I mean we'reth throwing all our data as we'll talk about partnering on the assets. So I'm throwing everything that relates to nick in one pool. So Nick is happier. We all benefit, versus I'm here to sell Nick's data. So I think there's a fundamental shift in our approach to data and trust and other companies, the NONTELLCO competitors. So most cellcos adhere to the principles we have and I think that's why the Suoner we get to a place where I don't have to think whether it's voter phone or tell us or bet or doctor telecom or verizon, the happier we are. But we do need a couple of things. We do need uniform Apis and then we can talk about which standard body can do it and if we want them in my lifetime or not, because some of them are not the most agile. But also we need to common data models. So how do I model a business? How do I model a farm? You talk about add how do I model a physician? How do I model a patient? And I think we need to agree at a high level because the a lot of local stuff in the UK. You've got healthcare, of about Medicare in Canada. So I'm pretty sure they have enough once descrubt things and add complex today. But at the end of the day, if you've got our fevers, the furging same fee for it's just captured differently. So we do need to agree on data models, we do need to agree on Apis and we need to decide if we probably around that vision to partner of the hyper skillers and learned from we need to actually force them into circulin things and they will if they want to benefit from larger equiest. It's we're describing a give and take. It's it is, it always is in to give it either copying the best practices in the learnings, the jealousy, the speed, frictionless and to but at the same time you're coming from a basis of trust. You have a brand. People Trust you, they trusted you for years, they continue to trust you. It's like in health care. We use it. I think the same true on health care. What we're seeing. We saw an explosion of personalize acts and Apps on your phone that you've never heard of and it's going to communicate with your Apple Watch and they're going to have you medical information, but you can trust them and they're going to diagnose. What we're now seeing is way too which is which is hospitals and clinics getting their act together and, for instance, giving you medical grade instruments that you take home with you and, you know, remote patient monitoring. You go home and they go they send their data into an AI engine which the clinicians look at. But now you've got the people you trust looking at your personal data, as opposed to a start up that's trying to, you know, do an IPO, looking at your data and giving you, giving you the answer in your iphone. And I think that, given this is a huge obbac of global debate, but the given what's going on in terms of monetizing a data and all of the things that come with that, and which is a worldwide debate, way of our pay grades. But you are you. The industry is coming from a basis of trust and I think this idea of collaborating and building on that whilst at the same time recognizing the weakness, is by saying we have to become more global and we have to be more agnostic to cooperation. Were Open and willing to cooperation...

...and, particular, a more agnostic approach than a proprietary start of approach. I think is a is a is something that will happen. It's happened in other industries and it actually turns what some people potentially see as weaknesses because, you know, you're the the industry who's been around for years and whatever, but actually what you've built up is incredible assets and incredible trust and in the world that we're describing, they are they can't be created like that. I mean that they are strengths that you bring collectively with you as an industry into this world, because they will be needed when we when they we're not just an excited to rock to vices. The key is I want to partner with an ecosystem. I don't want to like I remember the old days. I'm a I remember the days when we had to have an agreement with every toneko on every country and there weren't as many as now. If you remember the good old days, there was like a three hundred operates pobli. Yeah, but that's treehound of friggin agreements. I can't afford to do that every time I have a DU service. So I think that's where we need to agree on intw we exactly that. That's why SI, among other things, right like. We need to agree as an industry on on that. That one of the bees and the chain, whether it does look like a model and the sea. And if all agree, then you can have your I don't know what football team you cheer for, being in the UK, have to when you get made opportunities to say it has to be Liverpool, bone and bread to Liverpool Fun. Okay, so I'm a lead United Fan, which is those two of us in Canada, so I'm pretty excited. I'm fifteen percent of the but but the reason I mentioning it is, like you're able to get that localized piece with the global nature right like, and I think this is critical to the work we need to do. But I need to agree on Nick, on Breham. There's your Liverpool Persona, there's my leads persona, there's you're the CEO of Si, I'm the CTEO of tell us, and these need to cohabitate in an area where, Oh yeah, there's a game as there a sale on and clothing. By the way, I try to get jerseys for my son who paid soccer football. Nobody's selling leath anywhere. There so far down, but by years, that's yeah, but but you know what, at it we will over run our time. I just want to put a big thought on because it's something on the table to finish, because it's something that we're really interested in doing your podcast on in the future. And this is my view, not just a lot of people's view, as to why what you just said is so important. Okay, and I say to people, look, think about we're having this huge debate now about facebook, sorry, Meta Google, and the whole thing about that. Yeah, the whole thing about yeah, the whole thing about you know, you are the product and because they want your information on the algorithms are optimized to get your information and monetize your information. And I say, look that debate. You think that debates big now, but what we're really talking about is a billion cell phones. What you and I are talking about is a hundred billion things exactly. And so what happens when you're your interaction with a machine gets monetized? Your interaction, not your browsing history. That's just a small slice of the time, yes, but what's your interaction with a coffee machine? Your interaction with your lights, rich your interact, action with everything that you touch is then digital marketing will apply to that, and so there will be, there will be an enormous opportunity, slaunch threat to monetize every single thing you do every second of the day, whether you use a phone or not. And this, I think, is one of the reasons why we need this trust model and people to get together, because, he we ain't seen nothing yet in terms of what could be possible for her monetizing eople's behavior, and that's a big subject, but it will. It's a...

...podcast and I'm glad it's a podcast, because you and I would suck debating since for a hundred percent the light. So they're getting two different flavors of the same view. And I think the sooner we get together with the partner, with the right partners, operators and integrators, and agree on what a date on model looks like, because you cannot easily then you like if you don't agree on a date on model neck. Just one last dig on this one, because I'm religious about it. Well, I'm having six hundred date on models that need to work with each other. She talked about the complexity. We should not bring our hundred year old history of minute tied and monetizing minutes and bites to the new world of data. That's what we need to learn from the hipers. Chairs Great. I am going to unfortunately, I would love to keep this going, but I think our users were probably wouldn't and they probably say look, and you guys have a round too, but I'm going to leave it there for him. I thought it was great. We touched on so many subjects and we only in the but I really want to thank you and thank thank the listeners. This is been a great episode. You've been listening to, as you know, the IOT leaders podcast with brain, who is the Cteo of tell us and an absolute visionary in a pleasure to talk to as always. If you have any feedback or suggestions, you can contact me either on Linkedin, Nick Oh r really, or we have an email IOT leaders at Si Seyecom, but let's leave it there and bring thank you so much for sharing your votes and that beautiful view of the lake behind your head on the story indeed, which was really Nice, nice little bonus of the beginning of the podcast. Thanks very much, and thank you to all of our listeners and I'll see you and talk to you. I'm an next IOT leaders podcast. Stay safe. Thanks for tuning in to iote leaders, a podcast brought to you by SI. Our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, helping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to iote leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to plot the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have change your vision of Biot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening, until next time,.

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