IoT Leaders
IoT Leaders

Episode 24 · 3 months ago

The Edge Can Walk, Swim, and Fly


What is the current state of the IoT market and where can we expect things to go? Nick talks to Mark Thirman, Global Distributed Cloud and Edge Leader at IBM, about pushing the edge and the future of IoT.

Join us as we discuss:

  • Mark’s career journey to date
  • The state of the current IoT market
  • A breakdown of the technology adoption cycle
  • Redhat and the Enterprise and Industrial sector
  • The “Shift of Power” catalyzed through technology
  • Drones! Feat. the IBM + Boston Dynamics partnership

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You're listening to Iot leaders, a podcast from Si that shares real IOT stories from the field about digital transformation, swings, the MRS, Lessons Learned and innovation strategies that work. In each episode, you'll hear our conversations with top digitization leaders on how Iot is changing the world for the better. Let iot leaders be your guide to Iot digital transformation and innovation. Let's get into the show. So, mark, welcome to the IOT leaders podcast. I've been waiting all of my life for this, this one opportunity to be an IOT leader at follower for all these yeah, well, let's maybe I'll ask you the question that at the end of this in about forty minutes, whether it was worth it and just to explain to our listeners. So, mark, is as a new title, so I'm going to read it out here. He's in church. He is the global distributed cloud and edge leader for IBM, which is very impressive. Mark, and I know you're based in Boston, Massachusetts area, and we're going to get into all of that. What it means your role relationship with Si, where you think the market is right now, where we're going to go in the future. But before we do that, one thing I always like to do on these podcasts is have the audience get to know the guests. So here's the opening, an opportunity. So can you get us all just a brief potted history of mop them? And let's just say they have a myth, the legend, the man in the myth, the legend college on woods in a period of time. First of all, thanks very much truly for having me on. I've watched several others of these podcasts and, as you know, because you're a guest on my podcast right podcast have really taken off and I think there are very valuable way to convey in a conversational manner. You know what's going on, you know ideaed on the topic. So I think this is a great thing to do and I do appreciate being invited. My college education was all around being a piano performance majors, as I think we've talked about informally, which was absolutely no use for what I'm doing now. During and since college, what I've been doing is working from a for a number of mentally startups, but large technology and Telco firms, including a start up or two that I've done. I managed to I believe I added up. I've raised about two four hundred and twenty five million, either as the primary or as a secondary contributor for multiple startups, back in the day when twenty two todd twenty five million was real money. So I was a founder and CEO of a company back by twenty years ago called airprint networks, which we took from cradle to you know, neutral exit, which was all around and it was an Iota Company. was all around secure document management, leveraging printers as an endpoint. Pre smartphone. We brought on a team of folks x Polaroid, where I'd also worked. Following that I worked for GTE internetworking, which was acquired by verizon. GTE was what was GTE internetworking was interesting because it was the company that brought in both rannick and Newman, bbnn which, aside from all the US political jokes around politicians inventing the Internet, actually was the firm that lit up the first Internet connections. Not Al Gore, I'm dead, I'll Gore. Definitely. Not Al Gore was a bunch of very smart people and you can read about it in a book from New York Times offer author Katie Hafner,...

...called where wizards stay up late. A lot of those folks literally turned on the first East to West node and I end up ended up working at that company until its acquisition. I was at Vota phone, where I looked after our verizon partnership and was given a few other responsibilities to lead teams in working with the channels and working with other operators like our friends at Tellus and Canada. Then I did my own consultancy working with Amazon web services and market and data analytics firm and a few other firms for a number of years doing thought leadership and Iot Global Strategy. Began engaging with IBM and came on full time on at the beginning of last year, so January two thousand and twenty one, looking after connected edge strategy in the consulting group and as I as I think you kind of touched on, I've just this week moved into the cloud group, looking after again connected edge and working with industrial and Telco and other sectors. Now the thing I'll highlight is it IBM has been in the IOT business for a long time. We've had an Iot platform called Watson, iote and other things, but we don't we've been categorizing Iot in different ways and we can certainly iterate on this, but edge is the IBM word, it seems, for Iot and other things, and what I'm learning, and again we can talk about it, because a size all about connecting things at the edge is that the definition of edge has expanded. But that's me. The other thing I've mentioned is, in addition to my work life, I work very closely in the academic world with a number of groups. I am a guest lecture at toughs university, which is top university here in the Boston area. I've been the chairman of the Connected Things Conference which we run annually at MIT eight nine years of that. I've given guest electricity at Mit as well at Boston University, at University of Southern California in the believer or not in the medical school, because we're talking about connecting medical devices. So this is a topic and a subject area that I enjoy talking about. I find it very valuable. I'm also an IBM speaker, so I get to speak at major conferences. So we're you and I saw each other last and Barcelona bubble walk up Congress. You're a busy you're a busy boy, as we say, of a here was very busy. Spoke I think four times. Yeah, so I'm a frequent offender on the speakers circuit as well. Oh, lastly, if you'll allow it, I also almost a podcast with my partner called failure the podcast, and at some point, hopefully soon, the Nick Earl debut on failure the podcast, which is an informal, not technology focused podcast, will emerge from editing. And Yeah, I was going to say I have already recoded it. I came off the phone and said to my wife. She said, how was it? I said, I have no idea what just happened. Let me just say, and I mean this in a complimentiary way, let me just that I'm hoping to apply a little more stretched to this podcast, but but it was great fun. Well, you know, with that sort of background, I mean, boy, you did very well to squeeze that into about two minutes. You do have a very varied a and sort of going across different parts of Iot Worl done I computing and etc. Etc. So that leads me into really asking you the first question as we get into this, which is from an iote perspective, and we'm going to get into the IBM a side of things. But from an iote perspective, many of us, myself included, have been involved fifteen, I mean m to M, I mean you know Skata, yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, the factory floor automation. I mean we can go back twenty years, twenty five years, thirty years, and we'll probably stop there, but although we could go back further. So where are we? I mean, where do you think the market is right now, because so many people have said they want to do this, but you know, so few people have succeeded relative to the potential of this that we've been aware, I so long. So first of all, the term IOT Internet of things to actually emerge from the MIT media lab where I run my conference, and a guy called Kevin Ashton is credited with coining the phrase, and it's worth looking up how he came up with it, but I'll note, and he's quoted widely on this topic, was about twenty two years ago when he came up with that. He notes that he actually came up with it very quickly to put a title on a powerpoint deck, that it's the he was doing any that that time. At that point the term Internet was sexy, so he thought if I put Internet. Okay, Internet of things. That's what you know. I I never heard that story. It's so that was that the time Nicholas negropunt was running the MIT and was actually yeah, because I remember that from back in the day. So he basically wanted a catchy title for so this whole industry that we're in came out of a guy wanting something that was cool and sexy pro time. And I'm fond of saying that Internet of things. It doesn't necessarily mean things on the Internet and actually, you know, I don't want it back into what a side does, but I recall from our many technical conversations that in many cases, most cases, you don't want your things on the Internet. And I know you're actually say we don't terminates on the Internet because it's you need encrypted data, IPNS, and so it's actually things not on the Internet. It's just not as catchy an acronym, is it? Let's right. And I know when we were at Vota phone we switched over from M to m machine, the machine to Iot, because that became sort of the term of art of that era sometime about eight nine years ago. Initially, you know, when I started a vote I phone. We called a Vota phone M to m. Now it's called Vota Phone Iot. So I think the the and I think a lot of folks have a problem, you know, get into your question, with the the use of the term Iot, because they still think they're that it's just a visible thing accessible off the Internet and if you've put your things on the Internet, little little pro tip, you've failed because it will be seen quickly and compromised. So the professional, you know, implementations are not accessible on on the Internet, the so called Internet. You know, I've that is a good, really good way of looking at it actually, because I think it helps explain something that I have talked about on previous podcasts and I know you've spoken about as well, is that people think that, oh well, it is the Internet of things and I already have a thing that I can connect to the Internet, is called my cell phone. So actually it's just things with a with a SIM card in and that are connected to the internets. And of course that's pretty and that's exactly what it isn't because it just doesn't work. It's one of the principal reasons why why adoption has been held back, because it is nowhere near as just putting your similar in a device. And Anyway, those devices have all had millions of dollars have been spent on them to predesign them, to certify them, etc. Etc. And most people have write hardware and and you know so, you would say, from an adoption point of view, does that mean that were, as the Americans would say, we're at the bottom of the first a bottom of the...

...second, which phone not Americans, is a baseball term over some of for some of US Americans. I don't even know the baseball terms, but I will. It's just not my thing. But because of yes, there was a book that came out by a guy called Jeffrey Moore called crossing Anasm. Yeah, Ninety one time frame, and actually had the opportunity to meet him a number of years go to conference very actually I met Him and Dr Ruth Westheimer, who's known as a famous TV sex therapist, at the same time. Here mob, they could be killed this this is as far as we're going to go. Don't worry, but I I do rest parents to the sex therapist on the IRT leaders podcast, by the way, and you know she's about three feet tall and he's a you know, regular sized human but I I saw him presented a conference and I was fortunate to have dinner with the two of them together and it was the most interesting dinner I still I mean I recall it twenty five years later, but he wrote a book, and several books actually on the topic of, you know, the technology at die adoptions cycle, and you know, we've all seen it. It's a it's a curve and then he's got a little piece cut out after the second segment and he calls that the chasm and he's identified as our call properly, that that chasm is where a lot of products or a lot of offering sort of stop. They get stuck in the chasm. I and his holding personal cross over to get to the Dunction Main Street. That's right now. Yeah, any any taught me a short cut which I've remembered also to this day, to remembering the technology a doct adoption cycle. So for look it up for those listening and watching. But the shortcut is why try by fly and die. So this is true. I got this from Jeffrey Moore. I'm so. I'm sure he's presented a publicly, but I recall it. I've written it down. So where are we? Your questions? Where are we in the IOT adoption cycle? I think we're we're in the beginning of the third segment, which I've identified as the by segment. Yes, I think we've had the why. Why do I do it? I'm another why for a while. Yeah, and I think we're out of that. I know you've written and spoken extensively on whether or not we're stalled and I know you've referenced I think was Cisco's numbers that we're going to have, you fifty billion devices and we're only at on nineteen or twenty three, depending on which which analysts look at. I would contend that we're at the early part of by and I would contend that we've crossed the chasm for a variety of reasons. The edges become prevalent, communication capabilities are now ubiquitous. Sell other is probably still the way to go, over Wi fi or fixed G, and I've just returned from a five g conference last week that qual calm hosted. I'm convinced at G, which has which is an umbrellas standard that has underneath it fall back to for glte and support of, you know, narrow band and even Wi fi. I'm convinced that five G is is really going to drive things. I forget the number right now, but the vast majority of large telcos globally have adopted or begun to adopt five G is. There, you know, path forward and we'll see that for a number of years. And I think in the IOT world, you know you've got this notion of massive IOT that a lot of the analysts talk about. I think we're at thinking it'll just for people listening, like little labels, almost like printable labels for devices, so you can track a a food, chocolate bar or a small...

...that's right. Massive. So it said a fifty million, five hundred million or a trillion devices and the data from all of those. That's right. And it is all about the data. Nothing behind my head for those of you watching. Doesn't mean much for those be listening. But the idea for those of you watching is will of data from everything in one huge network. Yeah, that's right. So this notion of a temporary device rather than a permanent device, so a printable, flexible device that can go on. You know vaccine. It's you know the Monitor, you know cold chain type applications. There I mean it's just the cost of the sensors, the cost of the network, the cost of the underlying you know, nuts and bolts has gone down significantly. Also, there's a greater understanding out there in the systems integration world and the you know, application world that, you know, connecting things in order to get interesting data is very important. I think I just saw a Gartner statistic that's you're or so old, that says something like seventy five percent of all data will now be processed at the edge. And Yeah, yeah, so you've got this this migration from all these things are just blasting data up to the cloud. Now the clouds come to the edge and, you know, only the things that need to be sent up, you know, the Delta's, if you will, I think, are being looked at as being sent up to the cloud. So it's it. This is the shift that we're seeing. We're seeing industrial clients and enterprise clients actually get on board and get on board in a big way, which is sort of IBM sweet spot, is industrial and an enterprise. So as a result, you know, we're teaming up, nick, with your firm, as you know, to find ways to help connect things at the edge. Ray and and so that leads us nicely on to the next big subject and and perhaps I can just comment on the on the previous one before we go there. You know, there's nothing new under the Sun, as the Italians once an Italian tour guide, which is was that the Italians. Yeah, nothing new in the sudden, nothing new under the Sun. And you know, in the night there's nothing new. You know, we went from mainframe to mainframes and Minis and then main friends to Millis, to make pay minis and PC's and then and then we added the Internet, then we added the mobile phone and all we've done is we push the definition of the edge further out. Now it's things, but each each iteration was at least one order of magnitude greater number of things and Diot and massive bote. It's arguably to orders, it not three orders of magnitude greater. And at the same time, as you say, the applications move outwards, which means edge processing and managing applications at the edge is is where the egg, where the processing meets the sensors, is, is absolutely critical and be and before we get onto the relationship between IBM and Si that you mentioned, five g and you mentioned. You covered a lot of stuff very quickly there. But but there's the whole thing of you know, everything in a factory will be connected. I mean literally know, or a mine or oil refinery. They cut right, it could be ten million things connected on an oil rig. I mean you know. And there are a thousand worries anything and everything that's raining and everything. And Five gels means that what today and I think people, people get the factory. They but then you say to them, well, but everything that's in your office could come off Wi fi and people. So I don't think that's as well understood. That that five g private five g networks will be implemented by large companies and but by mobile network operators. But today you're using a...

Cisco while the success points say, as I am right now, for my laptop here in our office, but that's going over your corporate network. But but with five g you could well be using a private or public fight g capability for your office. So that so that actually things are going to move from the corporate network into a five g environment. So it's not just new deployments at the edge, it's existing things like your printer or your laptop could well move. and so orchestrating connectivity between Wi FI, private five G, public five G, going to the edge is is going to be a big architectural challenge and I guess that's leads to the opportunity for IBM, because what we're what we're talking about here is a like your view on this, is interested in that a massive opportunity for companies to re engineer that business processes that are manufacturing, this supply chain, the warranty process there the data architecture. Just a massive opportunity and I guess from a IBM and particular idea ib am, consulting IB am software products, this represents a huge opportunity for Iden wasn't I think it does. You know, if you look at factories, factory equipment for decades have been connected within the four walls of the factory, primarily fixed so we know cables, either net cables, then Wi fi, which gave some added flexibility to reconfigure production line or move equipment around. What G, I think, is providing as greater flexibility coupled with greater security. I know from working with, working with and for several telecos, the notion of a managed service offering from telcos is what they do. I mean telcos do two or three things really well and by extension, you know folks like like your firm. You know, you provide connectivity, you handle billing, building is very complex, so you can account for what's being done and you provide security. There are, I can tell you having been at the network operation centers of several large Talcos, there are people seven hundred and twenty, four hundred and sixty five making sure that the network is always operational and is, you know, as secure as possibly can be. So I think what what what's happening now with five G is you've got this secure, managed capability with, you know, massive capacity and, you know, faster throughput, lower latency and lots of flexibility. Not Everything has to be, you know, full on. You know, let me open the pipe and throw tons of bits at at an application. Some some of the you know, massive applications are low data rate applications. Think Agriculture. Think you know, some light asset tracking work. Every now and then you just need to check in and that can be accommodated, I think, quite easily with all forms of Geo. Narrow band or Ketam one is now part of that as well. So I think we've got some interesting opportunities in the enterprise and in the industrial world. And again, IBM sweet spot has been the largest corporations and governmental organizations and industrial clients, you know, all the major factories. I think all the major corporations. We tend to have some footprint, whether it's just on our, you know it side, where we might be helping with sales force or some of the other sap deployments from there to, you know, actually helping on the industrial, you know industry for that O side, where we've... quite a presence right and from our perspective in as you mentioned at the beginning, we we have a week. The two firms have a pretty close relationship and spat a market in front of clients and and and you brought the two areas into it that you talked about it and the industrial it Iot and the idea of saying the people, large companies in particular, they want to a single architecture that takes all this data from the millions of things in the factory or whatever, the edge aggregation. So that's the outside layer. Then you've got the edge aggregation. So you may have laura bl blue blue tooth, right satellite, lower satellite, whatever, and you got the sensor information coming into the aggregation device. You've got any percent of the applications being processed at the edge. So you need to manage those applications, which comes back to IBM capabilities such as extension of red hat to the edge and doctor Cubernetti's application management at the edge, network function virtualization at the edge. And then you've got the the back all of it over cellular into the IT architecture. But before you get there you've got the hybrid cloud interface where people will have a world of many clouds and and we we have something called cloud satellite, which is not satellite like the things in the in the sky, that help manage an orchestrate between, you know, we're clothes between on premise workloads and the hyperscalers and I the amazone cloud. So we have some interesting capabilities to, you know, containerize everything, leveraging a lot of cool ID of technology. And I'm not even sure if people realize is that IBM continues to be a very innovative company that is really at the at the forefront, especially you know, we own read hat. We've been doing quite a lot with them, even though they run as an independent enterprise. But all those technologies are available to us now help solve problems, and that's what we're going to do, is to be essential and solve client problems. Ultimately, yeah, and and, and that's what I was getting at because, you know, we just describing it at a very high level of the way I describe that network architecture. On the one hand, it's complex because it's fragmenting and it's so like the Big Bang theory. I mean it's the universe expanding, a new planets filming and you have to have an architecture, model and policy from the center to the edge. You have to have network level, SDN somethod to find networking capabilities. On the one hand, it's it's really complex and you can see people say, Oh my word, it's too complex. I won't cross the CHASIMO weights on the left bank, if you like. On the other hand, if you have a partner that can put an architecture together end to end, that says look, this is how you can take advantage of this. The opportunities for efficiency and creating new experiences for customers are absolutely huge and our own view is that we're in enabler of that. But actually, from a customer point of view, a lot of the big projects will be driven by global systems integrates and especially people have deep technical knowledge, as you're pointing out that you have. I mean it's not just red hat, but the software portfolio and the tens of billions of dollars that you you do as a company with the largest corporations in the world, tremendous assets to enable people to move and embrace this world, which is part of the what did you call it? That the by phase, that, if the basins, if the big companies can get across that chasm, and we agree. Talked about this in previous podcasts. We agree that we're into you know, we've said once you enable interoperability around a common standard, you hit the inflection point of adoption, and I think that's where we are and that's easy u see see...

...well, because because Nick I under Jack, Esm gives corporations control, yes, and that's that's a key element. That's what they want. That's what I think the missing piece was to allow us to cross the chasm was giving an enterprise or and industrial firm control over how they you know, communicate where you know what providers. And again, I'm sure you've talked about this on many other podcasts, but you know, the notion of providing control from trusted partners is really what's going to get us. We're already beyond the chasm. I agree with that, which is, I think, the by phase. Why try by phase, by I think Jeffrey Moore called the early majority, if I recall the the the proper term for the the cycle that's going to last us, I think, a very long time, because we're beyond experimentation. We're beyond POC's. I'm sure you've talked about POC Hel for the technology vendor community. I think we're beyond POC's. You know, we're actually onto deployments. I mean I'm seeing it, I'm seeing it today, that we're now deploying. But the other thing I want to comment on very, very quickly is what IBM is also good at. We're got systems, systems integration capabilities, fantastic technology, unbelievable research. I forget how many PhD researchers we have in IBM research and you know, where the largest filer of patents globally. But we're also very good at partnering. So we've got large partnerships, all of which have been announced in the past, you know, with very key firms, and IBM, I think realizes rightly that, you know, especially an Iot, this is a team sport. No one firm has all of the answers. For example, we didn't have a connectivity capability to me to get into, you know, really scaling up connected edge capability. They are connected edge deployments. You need the connected part. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, kind of. It kind of be a TV doesn't doesn't receive the signal. It doesn't matter you come watch anything. Well, because we're waiting for the thing to be connected in order to do all the other wonderful things. So again, I think it's made some sense for our two companies two team up to go pursue very large opportunities or, you know, Iot opportunities and enterprise and the industrial segment to, you know, kind of move things along quickly solve the problem. In the cases where firms want to, you know, work with their existing commercial arrangement with other operators, we can accommodate that through your platform and I think it that's kind of the right the right messaging. I think the right the right stuff is let's go get this thing done. We've got all the capabilities, we give you the control and we've got a simplified approach to the mark and that little phrase you just use that we give you the control. Sometimes it's hard to see the wood from the trees and see what the patent is that you know because we're so close to it. Sometimes you miss I just thinking of it. Have you seen that video where the guys bouncing the basketball and the the gorilla walks across the screen and then you say to people afterwards, did you see the goriller? And you tell them to count the basketball that bounces and then and the gorilla walks, waves at the camera and walkes off. Is the very famous video. And then he says the did you see the griller? And like nine cent of people didn't see the gorilla. And I use that as an analogy of sometimes you're so close to things and you concentrating on things you miss the really big thing, and I think the big thing is is this is, is a technology enabled shift of power. In the four years and years and years, the game or the business model that the ecosystem was essentially the series of proprietary stacks. I work. He said, you work for Vodaphone. Fantastic company. We were very closely the Vodaphone. But vote phone have a proprietary...

...saying with the proprietory M Z, as does every of the eight hundred and twenty mobile network operators, and so so the the control of the switch, the RSP, the remotes, improvisioning that was essentially controlled by the person who's got their sin into your device. First the the the gorilla. My analogy is the moment. You then say, what if the enterprise control the switch and if the same was agnostic but could connect to anybody? And our model, of course, is just is not roaming as as as you know, but but is around. You know, the ability to currently localize onto fourteen mobile network operators buy a user control switch or it's a fundamental shift of control of power from a series of prietary stacks to a model where a user says, well, I want to do my own Iot and I want to do g for g down to narrow band and I actually want control of the switch. I could. I have control of the switch and so I can set my own rules. That's right, and he sim in the U Sec enables that and, as you rightly say, that is probably I think when we look back, people will draw these charts and they'll say, oh, it really took off the inflection point. There was talk about covid and and whatever. But, but, but, they'll say, from a technology point of view, when we enabled true interoperability between operators, agnostic interoperability of federated orchestration and at the same time gave users the control over the switch, this is the point at which the market really exploded. Right. Certainly that's our belief and our and our philosophy. So we could talk for hours. I wanted to just go to another area, which is okay. So let's assume for the moment that we've just crossed the chasm. We're into the the people who would go into main street. You know, the Tornado. Jeffrey Moore puts the Tornado. Also talked about gorillas. He had one call, I think the gorilla game. He did. Yeah, I've repent. I will. When I was based in the US I got to know Jeff Really, really well and I think three or four brilliant guy still practicing. If I one of our shareholders, as SI runs TCG, the chasm group in in in a mire. So we actually have a major show that. If you talk to Jeffrey ask about the Dr Ruth Dinner, they'll remember it with okay, well then, let's not tell that story on this podcast. I never know where you're going to here. There's there's not, there's nothing. Nothing said heary about about that. Just she's an awfully Nice Lady. I won't go through the top. Dr Ruth. Well, I'll ask that's got shareholder to us. Ask US yet. But where I was going to go is is around. Where's it going to go? I you assume that there's a technology enabler essentially enables you use the shift of power choice to the user and interoperability, which drives down costs, an increased choice, so great around a common standard, EU SEC. So that's great. So finally, finally, after twenty thirty years, we got that component. We crossed the CASM. You start to get massive option. The question then the massive option is a long curve, not just because there's tens of millions, billions of things that will be connected, but because you then start to be able to be able to do things other than just things as such. So so, for instance, you mentioned robots, but again we you know it, and we mentioned Prom Sake, you know. Yeah, well, I was thinking. We mentioned Candy Bar Rappers, as you call it, speed rappers, but then you start thinking about, yeah, drones, for example. I mean it literally is every everything being connected. So what's your yeah, some of you yus...

...time. Yeah, so, you know, we've got new ingest points. Now the edge now has legs, if you will. The edge has wings. Those are kind of two ways to look at the edge. Actually can swim. So I've now I've been working on projects around ingesting data from these new kinds of moving sensors. So underwater you'll have U A V's underwater drones that are able to compile data relevant to, you know, whatever the industry is that has stuff underwater. We're seeing quite a lot. But idms done quite a lot with Boston dynamics, who have this wonderful robot called spot. You can hear about all about a, read all about it. If you come to a major conference and IDM as a stand you can assume that they'll be a yellow robot walking around because we you know, really it's a very big engagement for us. Are Very big pursuit. And then, you know, you're looking at we're looking at drones now. One of the panels I was on in Barcelona was a drone panel and you know, key companies are now wanting to do things like inspect infrastructure, inspect bridges, inspect buildings. Tragically, here in the US roughly year ago they had a large building collapse in Miami, Florida. What if one could inspect the building very quickly and easily with a drone that's tied into you know, Iiot and just points and is able to build a digital twin of the building so that you can kind of take a look without digging into the building itself. You know where are some possible stress fractures, if you were where some points where the building might have failures. So again, this is an extension from in again, you go go way back. You know, a device was connected on a fixed network inside the four walls of the factory or an a vending machine or whatever. The early, early Iot M tom use cases where we now have relatively an expensive edge devices that fly, that swim, that, you know, perambulate on their own, and that's that's something that's new. This notion you could take a connected robot that can go and go where humans can't because it's dangerous. Yeah, it's tedious. I'm thinking nuclear power plants for inspection, of thinking, you know, places where there might be not yeah, not just gasses, serious will zones, exactly whatever. Yeah, yeah, but I'm just see, I'm even just see of industrial applications where I can see if the gage is in the wrong spot and send it in and then and then do something with it's more than just a roving camera. In the case of the spot robot, there's a you can have an arm on it that can grasp and turn and can look at the gage, notify the human that there's the thing's out of out of the standard and, you know, close the clothes, the leak, if you will. So there's there's some very, very interesting use cases where, again, the edge now walks, flies and swims, which is not something you could have said or would have said a while back. I like that phrase. I haven't heard that and what was going through my mind as we finish off here is and on the one hand we talk about getting rid of the pilod proprietary stacks, but that's really on cellular and you virtualize the switch in the cloud, which what we do. You make it agnostic across all the world's operators and you say okay, well, now everybody can play together through a obstructed rate, federated lay. But then what you say as well, hang on a second, that's only sell you the nick. So that's public, public cellular rap times. And...

...then you got private people buying their own spectrum, right, independent companies offering services out with, you know, bypassing the mobile network operators. And then you say well, that's even. Then that's only a fraction, because you've got B a Lee, you've got Laura. I would say six foot sing folks, but I think that that's probably a way. He'll add so much. Yeah, not so much, but but anyway. You definitely got Sax allued and there will be a lot more of that. And you've got things like what Amazon to do, sidewalk, and I mean there's a whole series of it's helium as another one, helium, yeah, which is linked to one black team like do. And so punches is going to be new types of proliferation and an our view is that the eat. That makes the case even more that you need a an abstracted, not just m no agnostic, but but radio access type agnostic, sweetly in the cloud, because because without that capability then you're going to have to, as a user, plug all this stuff in and monitor it and and we almost like a your own telco. Right, this stuff changes and it doesn't link together, and so it is going to create new opportunity, new complexities, but new opportunities. But I really like that phrase. Maybe we should finish on that phrase. So what did you say that the the edge was the three whom can walk and can fly. The edge can swim, walk and fly. Okay, it's ever heard in here for us? Yeah, well, it's first time I've used that, but it occurred to me that that's the right way to look at it. And again, and I know you want to wrap up at the you know, the state of the art has been around a thing with a connected sensor on it. You know, a pipe gage, you know, a are whatever, but now these things, you know, have grown legs or fins or or wings, and you know, if you know you're talking, if you want to talk about like what is the future right now for Iot? It's a commendating these movable edge sensors that provide even a greater view into the enterpriser or into the industrial environments. And you know, again, it's shipping tons of data and it's providing greater insights which ideally help people offset costs, save money and increase efficiency. And you know, that's I think you know what if we've been doing during the COVID era, we've been coming up with, you know, additional ways to make companies more efficient. So that's where I think things are headed in the in the near term. And, to put a bow around it, one of the other things that Jeffrey mulk proved, as did most of people like Jim Collins, good to great and Clayton Christians in the nivatd developers, we're talking business books, is that every wave of technology enabled business modeled distruction, disruption. So not the technology, but the the ability for technology to enable disruption not only created new opportunity but actually created a new set of new set of winners and loses. And I think that's the bicky thing, is that it is not automatic that the leaders of today will be the leaders of tomorrow. As these capabilities suddenly become easier, cheaper, fastest, smaller and typically eight out of ten. As a lot of data around, as you'll know from me Your Business School background, eight out of ten leaders on in the previous wave are not the leaders in the in the next wave. And it's something. It's even nigher than they'd out of ten. So that represents both the opportunity and the threat...

...for for people in that in that history says that new entrance or companies with a willingness to disrupt themselves are likely see this as an opportunity to leap frog. That's right. Or some people say you overtake on the bends and on the straights. If the change happens, that's when people ever take. I think that's exactly right. Yeah, all right. Well, listen, we could talk about this for hours, and indeed in the past that we have and over that mark, but that's true. I am hoping that people found that really interesting. We also covered a selection of business books that people haven't read and coined a new and new phrase for the for the edge, and managed at some point to get the word sex therapist into this, although I can't remember for the life you. You're at the first. Would you just use sex therapists in this wrap up. Just for the record, I just said Dr Ruth Ha up your mind. Your mind went somewhere else. I'm I'm not on me. Is early in the earlier in the recording, but anyway, listen. Thanks again. We, I know we're doing a lot together as the two companies and we're proud to be your iot connectivity partner. So we look forward to working with a lot of clients and I hope for those of you listening, I hope you found this very, very informative and I've been talking to mark Thurmon to remind you of his role at IBM. Is the global distributed cloud and edge leader for IBM and you've been listening to the IOT leaders podcast with me your host, nickel, the CEO of Si. So just want to finish by thanking you, mark, for coming on this podcast. I look forward to my appearance on your podcast being released at some point and looking forward to the corporation and the collaboration, I think, because it's some very, very interesting, very interesting ground during the during this podcast. So thanks very much. Thanks very much for having me and really appreciate the opportunity to kind of talk about my favorite topic, which is connecting things okay, all right, thanks very much and we'll talk against it yes. Thanks for tuning in to Iot leaders, a podcast brought to you by SI. Our team delivers innovative Global Iot cellular connectivity solutions that just work, helping our customers deploy differentiated experiences and disrupt their markets. Learn more at SICOM. You've been listening to iote leaders, featuring digitization leadership on the front lines of Iot. Our Vision for this podcast is to be your guide to Iot and digital disruption, helping you to plot the right route to success. We hope today's lessons, stories, strategies and insights have changed your vision of Iot. Let us know how we're doing by subscribing, rating, reviewing and recommending us. Thanks for listening. Until next time,.

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